ALL consolidated SMRT/NEL/KT.. simisai BREAKDOWNS here!

[inlinesix]

I assume that's they think this is commercial dealing and since cost is bare by manufacturer (this need to verify) they don't feel a need to tell the whole world. After all it's Involve a foreign entities, why spoilt the relationship when u still need to repair?

 

No need to assume.  LTA officer don't like to face public.  That's why no announcement.  It has nothing to do with commercial dealing.

[Joseph22]

No need to assume. LTA officer don't like to face public. That's why no announcement. It has nothing to do with commercial dealing.

If u are a non perm staff u want to face public?? Of course not... Don't get me wrong u am not defending them... Just trying to think like them.

[Enye]

so how many here complaining takes the mrt daily?

 

 

[inlinesix]

If u are a non perm staff u want to face public?? Of course not... Don't get me wrong u am not defending them... Just trying to think like them.

 

LTA staff are non-permanent staff?????

 

[Shull]

Under normal circumstances, this will be a no issue..

 

But with the high frequency of breakdowns in our train system, they either 

 

1. Admit that there is defect, and watch the internet hell break loose.

 

2. Keep quiet and pray that no one paotoh, else the hell that broke loose will be many times worse.

[Blueray]

All I can say is...

 

Thank god for the internet!

 

Else we will be kept in the dark about this and other issues.

 

And of course porn.

 

[Joseph22]

LTA staff are non-permanent staff?????

 

There are a lot of contract staff.... Only until recently then start to convert... Imagine working for don't know how many years still contract...

[Nzy]

so how many here complaining takes the mrt daily?

 

 

[Jellandross]

I'm not actively keeping track of every single train breakdown.  Before this expose, it sounds to me like the officially-reported "root causes" so far can be generalized under:

1. Significant incremental passenger load - stressing the underlying infrastructure
2. Insufficient focus on maintenance - causing MTBF to go up significantly
3. Mysterious/unforseen parts failure - presumably caused by increased passenger load stress

These are all day-2 post-sales and maintenance issues.  Yes they are challenging and needs to be addressed accordingly.

 

But with this new expose, it basically adds a completely new dimension to the whole failure scenario which had never been discussed before:

• Fundamental defects introduced at the product manufacturing source
• Is this a trustworthy and quality product to begin with?

 

Why is this significant?  Well, the official "defense" so far was that all the failures are due to externally-introduced causes - increasing load, insufficient maintenance, etc.  The problem is mostly external, fingers pointing outwards, and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the product itself.

 

Now with this new expose, it opens up a whole shitload of questions that the "officials" are not prepared to answer nor do they have the inclination to do so.  Because now the fingers are starting to point inwards towards the organization.  

 

Are the products faulty to begin with?

Did they contribute directly/indirectly to the subsequent failures?

Last but not least, what other negative information is being withheld from public knowledge?

 

 

P/s: No i don't regularly take MRT so I'm just an internet train expert armchair critic with minimum vested interest.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Jellandross

[Adrianli]

so how many here complaining takes the mrt daily?

 

ð

Dont take mrt daily. But if mrt breakdown, all of us will be directly or indirectly affected.

[Alheych]

Sorry, this isn't a "pertinent" question but more of a rhetorical one.

Since you completed the question and ended with a statement "they did so successfully", that pretty much a judgement call itself.

No ?

 

As you also agree this Story has been crafted in such manner that put suggestive opinions in ways that manipulates public perception while without giving concrete evidence that is  a "secret" operation.

 

That is the power of information (or misinfomaton) through media.

 

As I commented earlier, why jump the gun on the premise of a report made by an agency funded by unknown $ and run by non-Hong Kongers ?

 

Let me start by saying that I too, take a charitable view of people's actions, and especially the government. I have defended COE, ERP, ministerial salaries and Pioneer Generation Package etc on this forum (accumulating dunno how many dislike points along the way). Check my posting history. I am not one to take a cynical view of the establishment.

 

@Wishcumstrue, I believe your opinion is that we should not jump to conclusions that there has been a cover-up. Fair point.

 

You also seem to believe that there is foreign intervention in this matter, by virtue of the media involved. Also acceptable.

 

What would then be the objective of this foreign media?

 

@Pinobii has said that there are HK-ers who want to prevent Chinese made products from entering their territory. A possible situation. They would then have the incentive to make this whole incident more shady and sow distrust among HK-ers. SMRT would then be a collateral damage in this whole saga.

 

... but that means the whole return-to-sender did happen, and LTA/SMRT/CSR Sifang indeed did not tell us. Which is the bulk of the contention here.

 

Let's think more sinuous intentions, people who have a direct interest in seeing Singapore and China relations break down. Malaysians? Indonesians? Americans? People who will benefit from our lesser dependence on China. Maybe the Koreans who lost out on the contract for this batch of trains, perhaps?

 

... none of these people could have achieved this if the defects did not occur. These are facts, and facts acknowledged by LTA itself.

 

I may be pro-establishment, but I cannot be wilfully blind.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Alheych

[Enye]

Dont take mrt daily. But if mrt breakdown, all of us will be directly or indirectly affected.

you mean sit in the car and lament the traffic jam caused by the breakdown?

 

 

[Enye]

[Adrianli]

you mean sit in the car and lament the traffic jam caused by the breakdown?

 

ð

Everywhere will be traffic jam lah. Then wife will call for help. Have to squeeze with every other drivers to go rescue my wife.

 

The last major NSEW line broke down, my wife was stucked in Orchard.

[Ahbengdriver]

Read this on another site.  

 

=================================================

INSIDER INFO ON LTA COVER-UP OF CHINA MADE TRAINS

Submitted by farhan on 

Thu, 07/07/2016 - 9:26am

 

 

Cost me a prata supper plus teh tarik to get the details from an insider in Govt and it is shocking.

By now you would have heard about expose by a HK New Agency that did groundwork in China and Singapore including tracking of defective trains from Bishan Depot to Jurong Port after midnight.

Here are details.

1. Infrastructure and rolling stock belongs to LTA and not SMRT or the other subway operators. LTA placed the contract in 2009 for 22 trains and a further 13 trains in 2011 to the second highest bidder. This consortium was led by Kawasaki who have supplying trains cars to MRT since 1986. The 2009 and 2011 contracts was the first to include a Chinese partner who will do the main build.

2. The first trains from the Chinese builder went on line in May 2011 with the last of the first 22 to be operational by 2012. The remaining 13 would come online in 2013. However issues kept popping up from day 1 when the first trains arrived in May 2011. Within 3 months significant defects including cracked undercarriage, body and the actual integrity of the whole construction was being questioned. This is when the first cover-up began in earnest because the PM apologised to the nation in May 2011 during GE2011 and more bad news was not going to help matters.

3. The shattered windows and exploding batteries were all minor and a smoke screen. SMRT and Temasek refused to be held responsible for the defects and it fell on LTA and Ministry of Transport to resolve it.

4. LTA then came up with their disingenuous plan B to cover up the mess which involved every single one of the trains and no just the 26. They would order more new trains much earlier the usual and do a switch over when the new replacement trains came on line. To give a semblance of normalcy they again awarded contracts to the same consortium but in this case, the main build be done by Kawasaki and the Chinese company do only assembly work.

5. Plan B also involved Kawasaki to do monthly checks on these trains and do onsite rectification ( read as temporary repairs until return of the entire train). This charade began in late 2011 and continued till they were returned which is in 2016. Imagine your Toyota car being inspected every month by Borneo motors to ensure safety. Unheard of? But necessary as they were not sure if it will fall apart or be unsafe. Yes, you heard it right, the manufacturer checking every one of the 35 trains ever month in Singapore for the last few years.

6. So in 2012, LTA accelerated new replacement train procurement programme to do the coverup.

7. Here is the interesting and rather explosive bid - the trains that are returned are to completely stripped and disassembled, parts cannibalised for new body work and bogie (undercarriage) to be assembled. The Chinese company will no longer be in manufacturing but will only assemble parts provided by Kawasaki. Kawasaki will build the body and the bogie plus all the main components. So the entire Contract 151A build has been screwed up - not fit for purpose.

8. Here is the second explosive bit - SMRT Head of Trains Lee Ling Wee without coordinating with LTA yesterday revealed that these returned trains will fixed and sent back to Singapore in 2023. 7 years later!!! LTA's news release yesterday did not reveal this. Here is the short answer. Remember the accelerated programme in 2012 that was part of the cover-up and with further orders since then to meet demand. Well apparently we no longer need these trains as they will be surplus to stock and will be rusting in the yard if they are returned immediately.

9. The person who told me this even said that Mindef procurement who have their own share of mishaps in purchasing equipment such as ships, tanks, planes etc did not screw as badly as this and did organise coverup of this nature that ran for 5 years in such an organised manner.

10. More striking is the involvement of Japanese company who together with LTA kept this entirely secret for 5 years from Singaporeans. The leak interestingly came from the executives from the Chinese company who apparently never had trains returned from another country and treated the event with great novelty.

Here are the main concerns.

1. Can we trust this Government when they go to this extent to do a cover up.

2. Did Kawasaki pad the numbers in subsequent contacts to cover the cost of rebuilding the trains in contract 151A. Most commercial entities will logically do that when they know they are called to be involved in the coverup.

3. Why were subsequent contracts awarded to the same consortium and thereby directly rewarding them for sub-standard products. I buy a car which turns out to be a lemon and I then buy a second car from the same dealer who gives me a 10% discount. So I have 2 cars when I only need one and I paid for both of them minus the 10% discount for the second. Does this make sense?

4. When you have structural cracks both in the body and the bogie, how can LTA claim that safety is not issue. It is so bad and the integrity of the train build is such an issue that they will be completely stripped and disassembled and both the body and bogie will be manufactured from scratch. Does LTA statement makes sense.

4. Should it not be time that the Auditor General steps in to carry out an thorough investigation on this entire debacle. Should this not be the subject of an independent board of inquiry.

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Ahbengdriver

[Enye]

ha...another Farhan. I'll be damned if I am gonna trust another Farhan clone

 

btw has anybody thought about what the HK newspaper agenda behind this expose?

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Enye

[Still2016]

Now (at least) we think we know why our current predicament of trains are as such. It explains why there is an apparent "slowness" in our train upgrading because resources are used for this now found exposed happening.

 

The way the authorities go about seems to think that it know best and decide on almost everything including what information we should be informed.

 

All I can say Singapore really lives to its ..... Uniquely Singapore.

 

Can we change anything, I really doubt, the authorities now not only have one but two hands squeezing our bola. Don't believe, try to be funny and be a hero - you not only get special invitation to lim kopi but also specially arranged movers to move your stuff free, complain want answers - they answer even give ridiculous answer that borders on suggesting that we are stupid and we accept, we become so selfish as individuals and not as a nation - no need to explain just look around us, many have loans of more than 20 or 25years for a public housing flat (NOT Private) leaving almost nothing left for their retirement, cars if genuinely want to restrict numbers can be done easily especially when nobody dare to complains beyond the internet or Hong Lim Park - there is no need to milk car buyers dry with COE, ERP, Road Tax, increase parking charges, petrol with high government tax, 80 odd percent of population stay in HDB - upgrading is a useful tool to manage the masses and etc.

 

So do we expect anything different with the MRTgate saga? No I don't think so. It will be business as usual. Give some reasons and move on. People will make a bit of noise for a period of time and soon forgotten.

 

I am suspicious, that the authorities are very considerate and kind. Why I suspect, I think they realised that those uncles and aunties today have ran out of topics at kopitam to discuss about. So the authorities once in a while throw in one of these to humor them.

 

But on a serious note: the question of whether should the public be informed of these problems? Personally, I think they should especially when it deals with a lot of people (using train as their main transport) and whatever they may say there are safety issues that are concerned that requires the entire train to be shipped back to manufacturer.

[Alheych]

ha...another Farhan. I'll be damned if I am gonna trust another Farhan clone

 

btw has anybody thought about what the HK newspaper agenda behind this expose?