LTA to explore easing tight COE supply

[David]

What would be the impact on COE? I hope it will come down 30%.

[Pepe]

Agree with some that this flip-flopping is really irresponsible. Too much cars? Just cut COE supply. COE too high? Just release more COE. Surely this is not the way to implement policy. Come on Mr Lui, think harder how to improve the system. Not suka suka increase or decrease supply. It is really ridiculous the way COE prices are fluctuating by such a huge amount due to "somebody's mistake".

 

One flaw in the current system is that due to the high COE, those who wanted to change car are holding back. In theory, when the scrap their existing car, this COE will be recycle back into the system. Now that they are holding back, the COE goes higher, and they are holding back longer - it is a spiral effect.

 

Perhaps LTA could come up with a system that distinguish new car buyers and existing car owners. For the latter group, buying a new car and scraping an old car don't affect the present car population at all. So why should the COE price prevent someone from changing from one car to another? Also, why should a system that is supposed to control car population end up allowing some people to make money (eg. those who buy low, and sell when COE is high)? It just doesn't make sense.

[Ben5266]

Perhaps LTA could come up with a system that distinguish new car buyers and existing car owners. For the latter group, buying a new car and scraping an old car don't affect the present car population at all. So why should the COE price prevent someone from changing from one car to another? Also, why should a system that is supposed to control car population end up allowing some people to make money (eg. those who buy low, and sell when COE is high)? It just doesn't make sense.

Obviously, you have a car now.

And you are lobbying the govt to punish those without car and look after you.

 

I like..... as I too have cars.

[Boyboy]

Remember, there are Singaporean FT or PRs in many other countries around the world. Anyone knows what is the ratio of a PR in Singapore vs a Singaporean PR/FT in another country? 25 years ago during the peak of migration out of Singapore by Singaporean, my professor told me it was like 1 to 1 (zero net growth in population). Not sure what is the ratio now. At that time the PM (senior) had to shed tears on TV to plead people not to migrate.

 

Never heard of this. sounds interesting...

 

Would the migration rate not be higher at this point in time?

[Kiadaw]

Is there a day in MCF without a new COE thread?

 

Anyway, my 2cent, while the government have to take some blame, mainly with population explosion & road & transport not keeping up with population explosion, IMO, our own stubbornness, selfishness is the main reason for the congested roads, & high COEs.

 

 

1) If people can say, I will not buy car because I do not have elderly parents, handicap family members that need me to ferry them around, so people with these need can buy without big buerden due to COE.

 

2) If I will only drive when needed, the road will be less jam. Normal days, I can ride Public transport to work & back.

 

3) If I do not drive so close & cause knock someone backside, and I will not zip zap around traffic causing accident, the road will not be jammed for 2 hours...again. Leaving more gap & getting home 2-3 sec later wouldn't kill.

 

4) If I work in the city, I must not drive inside. I can P+R or carpool, or skid scooter to work & back.

 

If you go to most major 1st world cities, only a small number of people drive, & most people use other mode of transport within the city, when weather is bad, they change & adapt. No need KPKP government. I always prefer to take a train, or P+R (yes, its not a Singapore only concept), at the suburb & take train in.

 

But here in Singapore, most people do not have such thinking, they insist of having car, insist to drive everywhere with it, any other form of transport is not an option, then blame government why so much jam, & why car price so expensive.

 

More cars=more jams,

 

want less car=control COE (car price increase)

 

or people do their part by not driving when not needed. The latter you can forget it in our Singapore culture. Most people want others not to drive, so they will drive in smooth traffic. Few will not drive so others have smooth traffic.

 

 

We are the reason for a lot of our problems, just we do not wanted to admit. But we insist of blaming others, like Government for everything as it is the popular & easy things to do.

 

Calling other countries racist. but look at how fellow Singaporeans treat their maids, FWs & F&B service stuff, & how some fellow Singaporeans we act overseas.

 

Complain most food outlet is Foreigners, then look how some Singaporeans act as Vivas in Restaurants, you wanted to be in F&B? To many people, if their kids work as waiter or cleaners, they will feel paiseh, then how you expect filial sons & daughter of Singapore to be in F&B and service line.

 

[Elmo]

Still feel the China's way of allocation by ballot is fairer than our current bidding method which just favors the rich.

 

The luxury marques won't like it though as the current method pushes buyers to them.

[Atonchia]

Is there a day in MCF without a new COE thread?

 

Anyway, my 2cent, while the government have to take some blame, mainly with population explosion & road & transport not keeping up with population explosion, IMO, our own stubbornness, selfishness is the main reason for the congested roads, & high COEs.

 

 

1) If people can say, I will not buy car because I do not have elderly parents, handicap family members that need me to ferry them around, so people with these need can buy without big buerden due to COE.

 

2) If I will only drive when needed, the road will be less jam. Normal days, I can ride Public transport to work & back.

 

3) If I do not drive so close & cause knock someone backside, and I will not zip zap around traffic causing accident, the road will not be jammed for 2 hours...again. Leaving more gap & getting home 2-3 sec later wouldn't kill.

 

4) If I work in the city, I must not drive inside. I can P+R or carpool, or skid scooter to work & back.

 

If you go to most major 1st world cities, only a small number of people drive, & most people use other mode of transport within the city, when weather is bad, they change & adapt. No need KPKP government. I always prefer to take a train, or P+R (yes, its not a Singapore only concept), at the suburb & take train in.

 

But here in Singapore, most people do not have such thinking, they insist of having car, insist to drive everywhere with it, any other form of transport is not an option, then blame government why so much jam, & why car price so expensive.

 

More cars=more jams,

 

want less car=control COE (car price increase)

 

or people do their part by not driving when not needed. The latter you can forget it in our Singapore culture. Most people want others not to drive, so they will drive in smooth traffic. Few will not drive so others have smooth traffic.

 

 

We are the reason for a lot of our problems, just we do not wanted to admit. But we insist of blaming others, like Government for everything as it is the popular & easy things to do.

 

Calling other countries racist. but look at how fellow Singaporeans treat their maids, FWs & F&B service stuff, & how some fellow Singaporeans we act overseas.

 

Complain most food outlet is Foreigners, then look how some Singaporeans act as Vivas in Restaurants, you wanted to be in F&B? To many people, if their kids work as waiter or cleaners, they will feel paiseh, then how you expect filial sons & daughter of Singapore to be in F&B and service line.

 

So it's the social factors

[Boyboy]

Obviously, you have a car now.

And you are lobbying the govt to punish those without car and look after you.

 

I like..... as I too have cars.

 

he's saying why should the system allow people to profit by actually making money on their cars if they bought at a right time. doesn't sound like a car owner to me (but may well be one).

 

anyway, I also like, as I plan to sell the car next year and relocate! so my effective depreciation on the car i bought at end 2010 will be much lower than I thought it was!!

[Boyboy]

the gahmen could do more to drive such behaviour.

 

there's no attempt to directly encourage car-pooling, and cycling as a form of transport (not leisure, mind you) has been generally discouraged, with lame excuses of how we can't build cycling lanes because there isn't enough road space.

 

cycling and car-pooling would definitely benefit the environment, and the public at large, but eat into the gahmen's revenues. So I can see why they can't be bothered.

 

But I would think the gahmen should take the first step, since it has traditionally been so paternal in this country. Just mho.

[Maroon5]

OK, I think you made a valid point too.

But 5-yr COEs will unlikely reduce prices, with increasing demand from a growing population - that's for sure.

Growing coffers ... brilliant idea. More like one COE recycle twice over!

It will be interesting to see what they do next.

 

they stil hv the option to extend coe rite...5 yr coe wil never happen cos it solves nothing.

[Bystander50]

the gahmen could do more to drive such behaviour.

 

there's no attempt to directly encourage car-pooling, and cycling as a form of transport (not leisure, mind you) has been generally discouraged, with lame excuses of how we can't build cycling lanes because there isn't enough road space.

 

cycling and car-pooling would definitely benefit the environment, and the public at large, but eat into the gahmen's revenues. So I can see why they can't be bothered.

 

But I would think the gahmen should take the first step, since it has traditionally been so paternal in this country. Just mho.

 

There was car pooling pick up points in many areas during the 70s and 80s under the Restricted Zone scheme and vehicles could enter foc with 4 or 5 passengers as incentives.

. After they implemented ERP and do away withthe Cisco wardens, they scrapped this scheme. Maybe with ERP, they can't find a solution how to count the number of passengers in each car electronically.

 

 

[inlinesix]

It's a wrong move - taking one step forward and two steps back.

What's the point of having lower COE prices when the jams are gonna be even worse off?

Can own car, but everyday stuck in jams?

For what?

 

The LTA should continue to progressively reduce vehicular growth, down to 0% p.a. and thereafter, target to negative growth (shrinkage) to say -1% to -3% p.a. for x years, until our expressways are back to free flowing (acceptable = 60-70 km/h, uninterrupted) during peak hour rush.

 

Then, I say, we have a workable plan!

 

Of course gotta improve MRT/buses significantly, to handle all the ex-drivers falling out from the road system, as well as catering to the expected foreign influx growth.

It will be a correct move to remove COE entirely & flood the road with loads of car. Got $$ also cannot drive. Then ppl LL has to BMW.

 

Alternatively, every gantry during peak hr should be charge $10 for private car.

 

MHO, ppl juz think out of the box to get to work w/o relying on their car.

 

[Maroon5]

end of the day, the thing to do now is WAIT, hold back your purchases until news confirmed. but seriously when they make such news incl Lui saying he now has new data he never had before, plus the lobbying of the motor assoc n possibly a populist move, there wil likely b "good" news on coe supply.

[Jolie888]

It will be a correct move to remove COE entirely & flood the road with loads of car. Got $$ also cannot drive. Then ppl LL has to BMW.

The govt sure can do that, if they want to.

But is that good for the populus? No.

That will also impact commerce, cost of doing business, workforce punctuality and our overall productivity - tardiness. No good yah.

We all don't want Singapore to be another Bangkok, Manila, Jarkata, KL, or Mumbai, do we?

 

The MoT has to continue reducing the number of COEs, to correct for past mistakes.

Car ownership should be made as painful as can be.

No pain, no gain!

 

[Bystander50]

yes totally agree with you. The coe system has made buying a car a type of speculation and futures betting. To be fair in certain aspects, the speculation culture is created by the dealers. I still believe they should enforce that only the person who wants to buy a car to bid for the coe, then the successful bidder produce the coe to the dealer when he go car shoppin. Restrict the dealers to the open cat.

 

That is exactly the point. Other than the gov, ADs are the next in line benefiting from high COE. ADs don't give a damm whether you can service your loan, once the car is transacted, they get the money from the banks. The rest is your problem. The banks go after the defaulters and not them. To the ADs, they just want to meet their contractual quota to the manufacturer. ADs should just concentrate on selling cars, buyers find their own financier and insurance. The ADs are also earning commission fm these 2 sources.

 

If ADs do want to provide this as a package for their customers, they should breakdown all the costs, then let the buyers put down the amount they are willing to bid for the COE. This should be determinef by the customer how much he is willing to bid and not ditated by anyone. If the ADs are falling behind in sales, they can jolly top up the bid at their own expenses. Both parties benefit (but dream on for this to happen).

 

I don't see how difficult it is to bid for COE yourself. 10 years ago when not many people have heard of or used Singpass, I'll agree to it. Today almost every car buyer has a Singpass login. People have bidded in ebay or other auction sites, so what's so difficult?

 

The reason why no one is doing it because the gov n ADs will not be the main beneficials if the current system is overhauled.

 

 

 

 

[Jim]

It will be a correct move to remove COE entirely & flood the road with loads of car. Got $ also cannot drive. Then ppl LL has to BMW.

 

Alternatively, every gantry during peak hr should be charge $10 for private car.

 

MHO, ppl juz think out of the box to get to work w/o relying on their car.

 

If one pays $20 for ERP everyday during rush hours, Saturday inclusive, but not Sunday and public holidays (52 Sundays plus 10+ public holidays), that's roughly 300 x $20 = $6000 or $60k over 10 years.

 

In all likelihood, an aggressive ERP (and $0 COE) will cost less to the car owner than buying a new car with $60k COE. But simple human psychology says that we can cope better with one deep cut than equivalent or lesser cuts on a daily basis, so it is politically unfeasible.

[Nf0rc3r]

punished to do NS?

then why are we girls forced to go into labor? is it fair for us? should we demand equality so that men have to born half a child while women born the other half then the doctor will somehow join the 2 parts together?

you have to do NS because you are a man and you have to defend singapore. this should not be part of the discussion. either you do your NS or our govt money goes into hiring people like you to do NS.

you do get benefits to be a citizen and part of the trade off is that you have to serve NS

 

ok assuming that your idea gets implemented, then how are we going to overcharge foreigners who buy 2nd hand cars?

like what i said,

 

a subaru legacy costs 170k brand new, it is going for 80k after 2 years, that is a 90k savings!

if that legacy costs 110k brand new, after 2 years it would go for maybe 60 or 70k. cheaper no doubt but the savings would only be at best 50k

 

here's the legacy for you

brand new @ 168k:

http://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_...p?CarCode=10765

dec 09 @ 92k current gen model:

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.ph...544&DL=2296

 

so what? a local buys a brand new car and pays 170k only to sell the car 2 years later at 80k for a foreigner to take advantage of? how would that be fair?

 

also your idea would make foreigners think twice about coming to sg and we need foreigners. i'm not talking about your chinaman rubbish cleaner, i'm talking about your nuclear scientist who might come over if our govt decides we need a nuclear plant in sg

 

Cannot compare like that lei. The cost of that 09 model is no where near 160k..

[Maroon5]

That is exactly the point. Other than the gov, ADs are the next in line benefiting from high COE. ADs don't give a damm

 

only some ADs...jus ask Honda Mit Nissan the jap ADs.