Cyclist Problem

[Topspin]

Did you actually read your link or just scan through to find what you wanted and stopped there? Rule 6 refers to the actions in Rule 5. If you are making a signal to turn/stop/slow, then you are not to be riding abreast. If you aren't making a signal but travelling straight, then in Rule 7-2 then 2 abreast is allowed.

 

I accept now that rule #7 about bicycle overtaking has indirectly implied that riding two abreast is allowed.

 

I am glad that not every cyclist on the road insist on riding abreast just because the law says it is ok, otherwise any 2 lane roads will be reduced to just one. May also paint the road with more blood.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Topspin

[Dwee]

SINGAPORE LAWS ON CYCLING ROAD TRAFFIC ACT

(CHAPTER 276, SECTION 140)

ROAD TRAFFIC (BICYCLES) RULES

 

Taken from this Website: http://www.ntu.edu.sg/ohs/safetyforeveryon...n%20Cycling.pdf

 

Signals under rule 5 shall be made in sufficient time to enable traffic to take appropriate action for the avoidance of danger. Travelling abreast prohibited.

 

Every bicycle shall be ridden close to the left hand edge of the roadway and in such a manner as not to obstruct vehicles moving at a faster speed.

 

No bicycle shall be ridden on the right of another vehicle proceeding in the same direction except when overtaking such other vehicle.

 

On point no 3 above, a cyclist riding on the extreme right lanes are attempting to turn to the right but cars are overtaking it to its left, hence the cyclist is not overtaking therefore technically riding ilegally on the right side of other vehicles.

[Nzy]

SINGAPORE LAWS ON CYCLING ROAD TRAFFIC ACT

(CHAPTER 276, SECTION 140)

ROAD TRAFFIC (BICYCLES) RULES

 

Taken from this Website: http://www.ntu.edu.sg/ohs/safetyforeveryon...n%20Cycling.pdf

 

Signals under rule 5 shall be made in sufficient time to enable traffic to take appropriate action for the avoidance of danger. Travelling abreast prohibited.

 

Every bicycle shall be ridden close to the left hand edge of the roadway and in such a manner as not to obstruct vehicles moving at a faster speed.

 

No bicycle shall be ridden on the right of another vehicle proceeding in the same direction except when overtaking such other vehicle.

 

On point no 3 above, a cyclist riding on the extreme right lanes are attempting to turn to the right but cars are overtaking it to its left, hence the cyclist is not overtaking therefore technically riding ilegally on the right side of other vehicles.

 

If the cyclist is intending to turn right then it is legal to be on the right lane even if not overtaking. Just like how heavy vehicles are supposed to keep left but if they need to turn right they can go out to the right lanes as well. Its only illegal if the cyclist is not overtaking anyone and not turning.

[Nzy]

I accept now that rule #7 about bicycle overtaking has indirectly implied that riding two abreast is allowed.

 

I am glad that not every cyclist on the road insist on riding abreast just because the law says it is ok, otherwise any 2 lane roads will be reduced to just one. May also paint the road with more blood.

 

I am just saying its legal. IMO if its a small group of 2-3 riders they should ride in a single file to be considerate. However in a large group of maybe say 6-8 riders or more, it is definitely much safer to ride 2 abreast.

 

How many drivers will overtake by filtering out to the next lane if they are able to squeeze past the cyclists? I am sure you know the answer as well. At least if cycling in a large group, if the cyclists are 2 abreast, the driver will have to filter to the next lane to overtake rather than squeeze past.

[Topspin]

I am just saying its legal.

 

Yes, the law in on their side in this particular aspect of riding abreast or even just riding single file on a busy road but it offers me little comfort. Would I allow my children to cycle on the road just because I know that it is legal?...hell NO! There are many other safer hobbies to pursue like bungee jumping or shark feeding.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Topspin

[Ralliart99]

just be safe on the road

 

don't let your ego go over your head, either cyclist or driver

 

every life is precious

 

just be a little more gracious

[inlinesix]

Yes, the law in on their side in this particular aspect of riding abreast or even just riding single file on a busy road but it offers me little comfort. Would I allow my children to cycle on the road just because I know that it is legal?...hell NO! There are many other safer hobbies to pursue like bungee jumping or shark feeding.

Well, as i said earlier, w/o really riding to work for a wk, how could you conclude that it is more dangerous than bungee jump?

 

There is no room for error in cycling especially when you are riding on high speed. 100% concentration is a must especially road awareness.

 

Anyway, ppls who say that cycling is dangerous are usually those with no interest in cycling. That's my encounter so far.

 

 

[Nzy]

Yes, the law in on their side in this particular aspect of riding abreast or even just riding single file on a busy road but it offers me little comfort. Would I allow my children to cycle on the road just because I know that it is legal?...hell NO! There are many other safer hobbies to pursue like bungee jumping or shark feeding.

 

Everyone has their own opinion on what is dangerous or safe. Might as well stay at home since recently got many cases of cars running red light. Cross pedestrian crossing even in your favor also dangerous.

[Topspin]

Well, as i said earlier, w/o really riding to work for a wk, how could you conclude that it is more dangerous than bungee jump?

 

Figure of speech, not to be taken literally. How do you respond to a friend if they say I am so hungry I could eat a horse? Do you instead ask them well done or medium rare horse steak?

[Myxilplix]

I hope the TdF wannabes also leave 1.5m from each other when riding 2 abreast. I prefer single file which leaves more room to move laterally in case need to avoid any debris or pothole etc. But then again i most prefer riding alone and don't like the whole peloton/drafting/pulling/rotating thing going on as it increases the risk factor and cuts down visual distance and reaction times, it's like permanent tailgating.

 

Same thing on motorbike you don't ride 2 abreast in the same lane because it takes away your lateral space but instead should form a staggered formation within the lane. But then again motorbikes also don't have the whole peloton/drafting/TdF fantasy thing going on.

[Nzy]

I hope the TdF wannabes also leave 1.5m from each other when riding 2 abreast. I prefer single file which leaves more room to move laterally in case need to avoid any debris or pothole etc. But then again i most prefer riding alone and don't like the whole peloton/drafting/pulling/rotating thing going on as it increases the risk factor and cuts down visual distance and reaction times, it's like permanent tailgating.

 

Same thing on motorbike you don't ride 2 abreast in the same lane because it takes away your lateral space but instead should form a staggered formation within the lane. But then again motorbikes also don't have the whole peloton/drafting/TdF fantasy thing going on.

 

I don't have motorbike license but I occasionally pass by the driving centres and have seen them riding 2 abreast or maybe in the staggered formation you mentioned.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Nzy

[Myxilplix]

In the circuit at some junctions they can be 2 abreast when forming up at certain stoplines/traffic lights because they are either moving off in different directions (one going straight one turning left/right) or due to space constraints/course layout etc, all this requires approval from the TP testing department when it comes to the test routes. But when moving and when out on the public road test routes it's all single file (unless there are specific exemptions by the test department).

Edited November 20, 2012 by Myxilplix

[Nzy]

In the circuit at some junctions they can be 2 abreast when forming up at certain stoplines/traffic lights because they are either moving off in different directions (one going straight one turning left/right) or due to space constraints/course layout etc, all this requires approval from the TP testing department when it comes to the test routes. But when moving and when out on the public road test routes it's all single file (unless there are specific exemptions by the test department).

 

Didn't know that. As for bicycles cycling 2 abreast I also not much experience. Only tried once or twice cuz I usually cycle with smaller groups. But most groups have their own systems of warning the cyclists behind of debris or potholes right? IMO in Singapore, potholes still quite rare and not so huge so it outweighs the risk of a car trying to squeeze past a large group of cyclists cycling in a single file. At least the car has to filter to the next lane to overtake. But I agree that in smaller groups its safer to be in a single file.

[Myxilplix]

I think most road cyclists do the usual call-out-and-point to debris etc. I do it too even if i'm riding alone but i know there's a group/cyclist close behind me and i always use hand signals when turning or stopping so that all traffic knows what my intentions are. But sometimes you'll still need to shift within the lane to avoid the debris which is why i always prefer to have a bubble of clear space around me. Same mindset when riding a motorcycle which i carried with me when i got a road bicycle.

 

I just think that riding in big packs is asking for trouble and not being very considerate to traffic on the public roads we are all supposed to share. Funny enough half of the danger is actually from within the pack, every now and then you'll hear about the abc or xyz group rides having a crash caused a rider/riders in the pack, requiring emegency ambulances and leaving a bunch of injured people and expensively broken bikes.

 

I might wear the lycra/oakleys and ride a carbon bike with carbon wheels etc, but i don't get the whole roadie, elitist, self-entitled mindset and do my best to avoid all these people and riding anywhere near them. Yes, it's not exactly a safe form of exercise/hobby/sport, but i don't understand what these people are thinking by putting themselves in additional danger (like Hypermiler's story about the guys not wanting lights on their fancy bikes). It is also scary to think that alot of these guys with the expensive bikes are quite well off and also drive cars and you wonder what kind of safety mindset they have when operating their cars when you see them cycling like a bunch of brainless morons.

[Nzy]

I think most road cyclists do the usual call-out-and-point to debris etc. I do it too even if i'm riding alone but i know there's a group/cyclist close behind me and i always use hand signals when turning or stopping so that all traffic knows what my intentions are. But sometimes you'll still need to shift within the lane to avoid the debris which is why i always prefer to have a bubble of clear space around me. Same mindset when riding a motorcycle which i carried with me when i got a road bicycle.

 

I just think that riding in big packs is asking for trouble and not being very considerate to traffic on the public roads we are all supposed to share. Funny enough half of the danger is actually from within the pack, every now and then you'll hear about the abc or xyz group rides having a crash caused a rider/riders in the pack, requiring emegency ambulances and leaving a bunch of injured people and expensively broken bikes.

 

I might wear the lycra/oakleys and ride a carbon bike with carbon wheels etc, but i don't get the whole roadie, elitist, self-entitled mindset and do my best to avoid all these people and riding anywhere near them. Yes, it's not exactly a safe form of exercise/hobby/sport, but i don't understand what these people are thinking by putting themselves in additional danger (like Hypermiler's story about the guys not wanting lights on their fancy bikes). It is also scary to think that alot of these guys with the expensive bikes are quite well off and also drive cars and you wonder what kind of safety mindset they have when operating their cars when you see them cycling like a bunch of brainless morons.

 

Heard many stories about these cyclists who think they are those kind of professional cyclists and everyone should give way to them. Lucky enough not to have met many of them yet. Guess some just want to go and show that they have the right of way and drivers have to avoid them. It doesn't help that TP considers an accident between a car and a bicycle as and accident involving a pedestrian. This makes the cyclists even more likely to think that they can do anything and the drivers have to avoid them.

[Elfenstar]

Don't confuse the issue here.

 

If the motorcyclist tomorrow demands to be heard in parliament that they have a right to weave in and out of traffic without getting booked, demand drivers give them 1.5 meters when they madly chose to weave in between two fast moving cars/lorries, demand police to book drivers for not giving them gaps because it is their right to use the road according to their own unwritten law....then it will provoke the same kind of reaction as that of the cyclist.

 

As it is now, the motorcylist are strictly bounded by a written law. They break it and injure themselves, what cause is there to champion about!

 

Perhaps you are confused. No cyclist is asking for changes that would allow them to break the law. Can you guarantee that all deaths involving cyclists are due to cyclists breaking the law? Perhaps if all drivers did follow the law (esp those of inconsiderate and or dangerous driving) then cyclists wouldn't be asking for the lane would they?

[Elfenstar]

I salute your use of lights and fluorescent attire to highlight and indicate your presence.

 

Rude is only a assumption. It depends on how you use the bell. And what bad habits are there to inculcate when you are performing a safety act giving ample time for others to react before you come too close to them? Then what is the horn on every vehicle for? To be used on new years day and weddings to annoy neighbours early in the morning only? Horn/Bell equals to being rude. Where and when did this notion originate from?

 

I prefer to ring the bell rather than to learn a multitude of languages saying it to different races of pedestrians and drivers my intentions which are just too late if i can only be heard within ear shot. Have i got to shout all the way if there are traffic noise around. I have not seen or heard one cyclist saying their intentions except to curse at inconsiderate vehicles and pedestrians. Maybe i should be using a xylophone to be the first polite and kind cyclist?

 

What if my english accent cannot be understood? What if my dialect cannot be understood? What if my language cannot be understood? The bicycle bell is a universal indicator of a approaching bicycle. This invention came about multiple decades ago. It isn't a new thing. The frequency is high enough to penetrate most wound up windows of vehicles. Should i be saying it (my intentions) to drivers if i needed to warn them for being too close?

 

I rather be perceived to be rude than to invite risk. And i m not so idiotic to ring the bell at someones back when i m already too close to them. The bell can be heard many metres away and warning them way ahead is the right way without annoying or being rude.

 

I choose to ride on the road and i bear personal responsibility for my safety. I do not ride at the expense of inconveniencing others. Therefore I help to reduce the invitation of risk to anyone and myself as much as I can. If I can do that. I don't see why the other cyclists cannot. No rocket science needed. Just commonsense.

 

The horn is to indicate danger. The bell can be too, except that it simply isn't loud enough when it comes to cars. You can't be heard if your shout or ring a bell if the other party is in a car, at least not until its too late.

 

On the other hand, you can be heard by pedestrians and other cyclists just as well as ringing a bell if you speak up. Neither a bell nor a horn gives any indication of what you are planning on doing. Stating what you're planning on doing in english in Singapore would let those ahead of you know most of the time. At all other times waiting to see the reaction of the other party before making your move is more than sufficient to allow for safety.

 

Think about it this way. Say you're cycling at East Coast and a group of pedestrians is ahead, you can ring your bell expect them to let you pass and just continue vs slowing down to pace them, say "passing right", make sure they don't step into your path, cycle past while saying "thank you" and continue on your merry way. Which do you think is less rude, easier for the other party to understand what exactly you're going to do, and safer for all parties concerned? Which do you think the other party will appreciate more?

[Myxilplix]

Think about it this way. Say you're cycling at East Coast and a group of pedestrians is ahead, you can ring your bell expect them to let you pass and just continue vs slowing down to pace them, say "passing right", make sure they don't step into your path, cycle past while saying "thank you" and continue on your merry way. Which do you think is less rude, easier for the other party to understand what exactly you're going to do, and safer for all parties concerned? Which do you think the other party will appreciate more?

 

Yeah the slowing down and pacing them part is important, i usually just whistle or give a simple "Hello" when i'm about to pass because alot of people at ECP on weekends seem to be the non English speaking types and won't understand anything more than that. Also shouting at/startling people usually makes their head turn towards the source of the sound and if they're on bicycles this head-turning will also cause them to swerve in the direction their head goes, which would be towards the shouter.

 

I've seen some roadies blasting through the crowds at ECP screaming "ON YER RIGHT! ON YER RIGHT!!" like as if everyone knows what it means and then getting all pissed that the crowd is not parting like the Red Sea for them, bringing the same lousy arrogant attitudes they show on the road into the parks as well.