Bloomberg Article - Singapore's Population bubble

[Fuelsaver]

I'm no Econ savvy. What happens if everything slows down? Doesn't everything gets cheaper or remain same priced for years, n our income stagnate?

 

This the effect of constantly chasing after growth or more $. Just like keep stuffing body with food to make it grow, in the end, get a fat body instead of fit body due to lacking of training n relaxation.

[Damienic]

mybad... SG is a bad example.. also, i forgot about the indirect taxes..

anyway, i am finding myself too deeply entrenched.. moving out will be difficult. too comfortable here.. probably like cooking a frog in a pot

 

see how.. apply first then say. i'm targetting OZ.

 

I wanna consider OZ too but is very stringent now. Probably cannot get it. That is why starting to consider NZ. How old are you?

 

I had my degree in Sydney actually and would have much higher chance to get PR had I applied back then. Now really regret that I didn't stay to find a job then and applied for PR.

 

I also found moving out difficult actually as I really loved SG for its convenience (can find food and entertainment anywhere and anytime) but the desire is getting stronger. I find there is little job security here and when you hit 50 and suddenly lose job due to retrenchment, it's very difficult to get a job again. Not to say that in NZ or OZ we won't lose job, but their welfare system is set in a way that elderly who loses their jobs would find it far less stressful than if they were to lose jobs in SG. And also the exorbitant cost of living here which is likely to go up and up with the target to increase population to 6.9mil by 2030 a big issue. Overall i feel the future of SG looks bleak...

[Damienic]

I have asked our Inhouse SG PR cum NZ Citizen for advice. See what he says.

[Kiadaw]

If one wanted to move oversea, that he must stop thinking of living the Singapore city lifestyle. Just saying.

 

People complain that Singapore too small, too hot, too crowded, cannot do a lot of outdoor, interesting stuff, that's why they prefer indoor activities, prefer things like shopping, eating out.

 

yet when when they think about moving oversea, & have the possibility to do all the stuff they cannot do in Singapore (road trips, hiking, ski, mountain biking in mountains, convienencely with just the car, make a nice garden, grow your own fruits, flowers, bbq in your backyard...etc), they still think more about the same things they have been doing in Singapore, shopping, eating out, cinema etc.

 

& They think about wanting to live in another big city! Sure, they will have the conveniences of everything, & for sure, but it will also be crowded. housing & driving will also be expensive.

 

As expensive as crowded as Singapore? maybe not, but you get the point.

 

If you want jam free open road, you have to live away from the big cities,

 

if you want cheap big house, less crowded, see above.

 

You want better security, see above.

 

Also, you may have to do a lot of things yourself. If your pipe burst, you look for a piping in the shop, if your wall need painting, you buy a coat of paint, & brushes, if you have not already have, & do it yourself, if lucky, you may get some friends to help out. Unless you are very rich, you cannot get your won maid(s) as well.

 

Did I mention, in some places, you have to clear the road & pavement outside your house?

 

Its not so easy to moved oversea as you may thought, & even more so if you want the Singapore lifestyle.

 

Not encouraging or discouraging people, but you must know what you want, for yourself, partner, & your children, & do not say want to go just because you are fed up with what happen in Singapore.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Kiadaw

[Solar]

I wanna consider OZ too but is very stringent now. Probably cannot get it. That is why starting to consider NZ. How old are you?

 

I had my degree in Sydney actually and would have much higher chance to get PR had I applied back then. Now really regret that I didn't stay to find a job then and applied for PR.

 

I also found moving out difficult actually as I really loved SG for its convenience (can find food and entertainment anywhere and anytime) but the desire is getting stronger. I find there is little job security here and when you hit 50 and suddenly lose job due to retrenchment, it's very difficult to get a job again. Not to say that in NZ or OZ we won't lose job, but their welfare system is set in a way that elderly who loses their jobs would find it far less stressful than if they were to lose jobs in SG. And also the exorbitant cost of living here which is likely to go up and up with the target to increase population to 6.9mil by 2030 a big issue. Overall i feel the future of SG looks bleak...

 

40s leow bro.. same concerns as you have. there was once i actually toyed with the idea of getting a cab license!

but going over, we need to see both sides of the coin, not just the green pastures there.

mindset need to be strong, and its a whole family thingy, not just one or two.

many have failed in their attempts.. i have one ex-colleague who returned after a year.. after the wife couldn't take it..too dependent on maid and husband, and could not mingle, for example.

 

- quality of education for kids, ease of entering those 'better' public schools (i heard competition is equally stiff)

- efficiency of services

- cost of living, such as housing, car, food, daily necessities etc

- job security; glass ceiling in career?

- social safety net

- taxes (especially the deductibles.. or how to engage a tax accountant to assist you 'geng' lobangs)

- safety, geographic & neighbourhood

- discrimination of age, race, etc.

- emotional support.. going alone or whole family? can mingle and blend with locals? this is important

- are you a DIY person, no culture of maria/mum over there.. pay through your nose if you need handyman services

- are you/family prepared to rough it out in the first few years, financially/emotionally? i understand new migrants don't usually get their old jobs back.. they need to downgrade first and work upwards again.

- competition..it is everywhere, not just in SG. over there will be the same, or worse. tiongs, hk, tw, ah neh, angmoh, viets.. not easy..

 

there are more to consider.. offhand i can think of these.

 

i used to visit a few forums in my research then.. one conclusion.. SG is really a nanny state

 

pm me... we can discuss offline if you want

 

[Mllcg]

If one wanted to move oversea, that he must stop thinking of living the Singapore city lifestyle. Just saying.

 

People complain that Singapore too small, too hot, too crowded, cannot do a lot of outdoor, interesting stuff, that's why they prefer indoor activities, prefer things like shopping, eating out.

 

yet when when they think about moving oversea, & have the possibility to do all the stuff they cannot do in Singapore (road trips, hiking, ski, mountain biking in mountains, convienencely with just the car, make a nice garden, grow your own fruits, flowers, bbq in your backyard...etc), they still think more about the same things they have been doing in Singapore, shopping, eating out, cinema etc.

 

& They think about wanting to live in another big city! Sure, they will have the conveniences of everything, & for sure, but it will also be crowded. housing & driving will also be expensive.

 

As expensive as crowded as Singapore? maybe not, but you get the point.

 

If you want jam free open road, you have to live away from the big cities,

 

if you want cheap big house, less crowded, see above.

 

You want better security, see above.

 

Also, you may have to do a lot of things yourself. If your pipe burst, you look for a piping in the shop, if your wall need painting, you buy a coat of paint, & brushes, if you have not already have, & do it yourself, if lucky, you may get some friends to help out. Unless you are very rich, you cannot get your won maid(s) as well.

 

Did I mention, in some places, you have to clear the road & pavement outside your house?

 

Its not so easy to moved oversea as you may thought, & even more so if you want the Singapore lifestyle.

 

Not encouraging or discouraging people, but you must know what you want, for yourself, partner, & your children, & do not say want to go just because you are fed up with what happen in Singapore.

 

there are places that offer the best of both worlds.

 

japan, korea and hong kong.

 

all more ex than sg

[Kiadaw]

^

 

I have to agree with the last point that Singapore is very much a nanny state, especially if you have lived oversea. Our solution to everything...pay money.

 

Anyway, there are many other more options if you do not stick just to the English speaking countries...

 

 

[Mllcg]

^

 

I have to agree with the last point that Singapore is very much a nanny state, especially if you have lived oversea. Our solution to everything...pay money.

 

Anyway, there are many other more options if you do not stick just to the English speaking countries...

 

hows germany?

 

does it offer the best of both worlds just like jippun, HK or korea?

[Damienic]

If one wanted to move oversea, that he must stop thinking of living the Singapore city lifestyle. Just saying.

 

People complain that Singapore too small, too hot, too crowded, cannot do a lot of outdoor, interesting stuff, that's why they prefer indoor activities, prefer things like shopping, eating out.

 

yet when when they think about moving oversea, & have the possibility to do all the stuff they cannot do in Singapore (road trips, hiking, ski, mountain biking in mountains, convienencely with just the car, make a nice garden, grow your own fruits, flowers, bbq in your backyard...etc), they still think more about the same things they have been doing in Singapore, shopping, eating out, cinema etc.

 

& They think about wanting to live in another big city! Sure, they will have the conveniences of everything, & for sure, but it will also be crowded. housing & driving will also be expensive.

 

As expensive as crowded as Singapore? maybe not, but you get the point.

 

If you want jam free open road, you have to live away from the big cities,

 

if you want cheap big house, less crowded, see above.

 

You want better security, see above.

 

Also, you may have to do a lot of things yourself. If your pipe burst, you look for a piping in the shop, if your wall need painting, you buy a coat of paint, & brushes, if you have not already have, & do it yourself, if lucky, you may get some friends to help out. Unless you are very rich, you cannot get your won maid(s) as well.

 

Did I mention, in some places, you have to clear the road & pavement outside your house?

 

Its not so easy to moved oversea as you may thought, & even more so if you want the Singapore lifestyle.

 

Not encouraging or discouraging people, but you must know what you want, for yourself, partner, & your children, & do not say want to go just because you are fed up with what happen in Singapore.

 

I fully agreed with what you said. Actually after thinking for a long time, I'm more or less prepared to give up the SG lifestyle in near future (I mean another 2-3 yrs down the road) after thinking things through. Many people were saying it's too boring in NZ and OZ after late night hours and etc. I stopped thinking about this recently. Kind of adjusted my mindset.

[Damienic]

^

 

I have to agree with the last point that Singapore is very much a nanny state, especially if you have lived oversea. Our solution to everything...pay money.

 

Anyway, there are many other more options if you do not stick just to the English speaking countries...

 

Many people were saying Thailand is worth consideration

[Kangadrool]

Many people were saying Thailand is worth consideration

 

Hua Hin and if want cooler climate, Changmai, Changrai. But lotsa restrictions on foreign property ownership.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Kangadrool

[Kiadaw]

hows germany?

 

does it offer the best of both worlds just like jippun, HK or korea?

 

There is no perfect place, & also depends on what you are looking for. On top of that, the hardest part are of course to be away from friends & family in Singapore for extended periods.

 

Compare to other major countries, like Korea, Japan, or France, there is no one or 2 centralize cities, like London or Paris, & all the events took place there, & have overcrowding, & security issue. The population density is well spread, so there is no one very crowded place. Even if you live in the smaller town, you wull never be too far from a main city.

 

Also Germany being very central in Europe (Germany borders 9 neighbours), so traveling to other cities in other countries by car (if you are into road trips) are easy.

 

Anyway, if you complain about shops do not open after 6. In Germany, shops do not open on Sunday. Climate is temperate, more cold in the east & the more higher altitude South (in general). Its is flatter in the North, & more hilly, mountainous in the south. The Alps are about 500km from where I lived in central Germany.

 

if you are into old medieval style towns, then you will love the cities, as most cities still have a lot of very old buildings, castles. If you love high rise, bright cities like Singapore or Toyko, then I suggest not to live in Germany, or any other European countries for that matter.

 

Germans, like many European countries, their social activities are more personal & social. Inviting otehrs to their home, for BBQ, or dinner, or watch a game of football (always with beer), is more common, then meet outside, & dine outside etc. Like many Europeans countries, you have lots of sports & outdoor choices, from Winter sports to summer mountain climbing.

 

The language is definately a huge barrier, outside of the bigger cities, as many people have poor command of English. In Germany, unlike smaller European countries like Netherland, everything is translated to German, so in General, their English level not as good as others. On top of that, German is a very hard language.

 

Like other Eurporean countries, income tax is very high, uop to 50%, & VAt is 19%. Having said that, most people can have comfortable living if they do not spend unwisely, & Germans are known to be very stingy.

 

If you live in smaller towns, security is very good, better than Singapore in general I would say.

[Kiadaw]

Many people were saying Thailand is worth consideration

Well, its near to Singapore so returning home every now & then is easier, & climate is similar too, so it has its merits.

 

Bit Thailand is not for me. Not a big fan of Thai food, & I prefer not such a hot place. I always prefer a seasonal climate, but its a personal thing.

 

but if you think it is good why not?

[Mllcg]

There is no perfect place, & also depends on what you are looking for. On top of that, the hardest part are of course to be away from friends & family in Singapore for extended periods.

 

Compare to other major countries, like Korea, Japan, or France, there is no one or 2 centralize cities, like London or Paris, & all the events took place there, & have overcrowding, & security issue. The population density is well spread, so there is no one very crowded place. Even if you live in the smaller town, you wull never be too far from a main city.

 

Also Germany being very central in Europe (Germany borders 9 neighbours), so traveling to other cities in other countries by car (if you are into road trips) are easy.

 

Anyway, if you complain about shops do not open after 6. In Germany, shops do not open on Sunday. Climate is temperate, more cold in the east & the more higher altitude South (in general). Its is flatter in the North, & more hilly, mountainous in the south. The Alps are about 500km from where I lived in central Germany.

 

if you are into old medieval style towns, then you will love the cities, as most cities still have a lot of very old buildings, castles. If you love high rise, bright cities like Singapore or Toyko, then I suggest not to live in Germany, or any other European countries for that matter.

 

Germans, like many European countries, their social activities are more personal & social. Inviting otehrs to their home, for BBQ, or dinner, or watch a game of football (always with beer), is more common, then meet outside, & dine outside etc. Like many Europeans countries, you have lots of sports & outdoor choices, from Winter sports to summer mountain climbing.

 

The language is definately a huge barrier, outside of the bigger cities, as many people have poor command of English. In Germany, unlike smaller European countries like Netherland, everything is translated to German, so in General, their English level not as good as others. On top of that, German is a very hard language.

 

Like other Eurporean countries, income tax is very high, uop to 50%, & VAt is 19%. Having said that, most people can have comfortable living if they do not spend unwisely, & Germans are known to be very stingy.

 

If you live in smaller towns, security is very good, better than Singapore in general I would say.

 

i know tokyo and hong kong is like singapore in terms of everything.(bright city, plenty of night activities, etc..)

 

but HK is relatively unsafe.

 

cold doesnt matter.. i prefer cold anyway

[Peqasus]

I am not pro raiding our reserves but if pap has no idea other than population ponzi, then our only card left is if govt is willing to draw down $x, how can it be used to help us?

 

A multi prong approach aka broad spectrum antibiotics is needed to prevent further infection.

 

Challenges faced:

To boost Tfr

To resolve short mid term manpower needs

To resolve current infrastructure issues for eg 5.5m

To reduce dependency on population ponzi for GDP growth

 

The solution requires iteration to tweak the budget

Seeding

1. Free child care and cash incentive $100k over 5 yrs giving credible option for mum to stay home for 5 yrs til p1 and reduce maid dependency for Sgporeans

Pls do not flame this amt first

 

2. Govt to seed it firms to use our pool of stay home mums/dads to leverage on cloud computing to do home business eg decentralized call centre. This will allow growth and employment in this new verticals

 

3. Foreign workers to be taxed higher and taxes to go towards balancing this fund. Since they r here for money and stability, use them to patch budget and build our capability in stay home industries.

 

4. Finally the increased fund to parents will hv the trickling effect of increasing domestic consumption.

 

This has flaws definitely and more details and number crunching is needed. If each one of us can Chip in ideas to help US perhaps we can find a way.

[Donut]

If one wanted to move oversea, that he must stop thinking of living the Singapore city lifestyle. Just saying.

 

People complain that Singapore too small, too hot, too crowded, cannot do a lot of outdoor, interesting stuff, that's why they prefer indoor activities, prefer things like shopping, eating out.

 

yet when when they think about moving oversea, & have the possibility to do all the stuff they cannot do in Singapore (road trips, hiking, ski, mountain biking in mountains, convienencely with just the car, make a nice garden, grow your own fruits, flowers, bbq in your backyard...etc), they still think more about the same things they have been doing in Singapore, shopping, eating out, cinema etc.

 

& They think about wanting to live in another big city! Sure, they will have the conveniences of everything, & for sure, but it will also be crowded. housing & driving will also be expensive.

 

As expensive as crowded as Singapore? maybe not, but you get the point.

 

If you want jam free open road, you have to live away from the big cities,

 

if you want cheap big house, less crowded, see above.

 

You want better security, see above.

 

Also, you may have to do a lot of things yourself. If your pipe burst, you look for a piping in the shop, if your wall need painting, you buy a coat of paint, & brushes, if you have not already have, & do it yourself, if lucky, you may get some friends to help out. Unless you are very rich, you cannot get your won maid(s) as well.

 

Did I mention, in some places, you have to clear the road & pavement outside your house?

 

Its not so easy to moved oversea as you may thought, & even more so if you want the Singapore lifestyle.

 

Not encouraging or discouraging people, but you must know what you want, for yourself, partner, & your children, & do not say want to go just because you are fed up with what happen in Singapore.

 

People always have the mentality of 'the grass is always greener on the other side'

 

The point is nothing is free and ez on both sides.

[Porker]

The infrastructure planning 20 years ago did not account for such an increase so now how? Have to spend more $$$ for upgrade. And then who pays for this upgrade? The new "immigrants" or us?

[macrosszero]

how much can christmas island squeeze?

 

Singapore is 710 square kilometres. Christmas Island is 135 square kilometres. Add the territorial waters that it could be entitled to under international law, it becomes significant. For one, military training areas that are forced to share our limited land and air space in mainland Singapore can be shifted away. Also shifted far away from prying eyes......