Ready for high COE?

[Vinceng]

Saw an ad for Toyota vios, 8.8k, one year left. If parf rebate is 6k, you only pay 3k for using the car. Quite a deal, but one would be open to risk of car issues/repairs. But compared to new car, where one would have to deal with 11k depre, this idea isn't that bad.

You meant this one?

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=431234&DL=1000

 

Drive for 3 1/2 mths till scrap on 1 Feb 2015, depreciate $3,500.

 

This translates to an annual depreciation of $12,000.

 

Rather get a used Camry which depreciates only $10,000 annually.

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=430576&DL=1281

[Voodooman]

Bro, care to explain more, all along I tot it is more practical to renew low OMV cars..

The reason why it may be cheaper to renew than to buy new is you save mainly on ARF (100%-180%), 20% excise duties and dealer's margin.

 

ARF, which is derived from OMV, is the biggest of the 3. A high OMV car will logically yield more absolute tax saving vis-a-vis a lower OMV car like a Vios and hopefully that saving is enough to cover the higher maintenance and repair cost of a COE car over the next 10 years. The saving from a Vios can be easily wiped out by higher road tax, interest rate, a GB and engine overhaul, etc. ie. 1.0x over 12k (Vios) versus 1.4x (conservative) over 90k (LS460). PARF is a constant percentage.

 

Also it is different driving a 15 years old LS460 versus a 15 years old Vios, the former may offer a much better drive than say, a brand new Camry.

 

You need to compare apple to apple to see the savings. It is just maths.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Voodooman

[Rantwb]

http://m.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=430686

 

This one was $8.8k 2 days ago. Iirc.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Rantwb

[Vinceng]

http://m.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=430686

 

This one was $8.8k 2 days ago. Iirc.

 

This Vios was sold on 2 Oct.

 

The date 2 days ago was 15 Oct.

 

Could it be another car?

[Super7]

The reason why it may be cheaper to renew than to buy new is you save on ARF (100%-180%), 20% excise duties (GST is pegged to OMV too but is a small component) and dealer's margin.

 

ARF, which is derived from OMV, is the biggest of the 3. A high OMV car will logically yield more absolute tax saving vis-a-vis a lower OMV car like a Vios and hopefully that saving is enough to cover the higher maintenance and repair cost of a COE car over the next 10 years. The saving from a Vios can be easily wiped out by a GB and engine overhaul. ie. 1.0x over 12k (Vios) versus 1.4x (conservative) over 90k (LS460).

 

Also it is different driving a 15 years old LS460 versus a 15 years old Vios, the former may offer a much better drive than say, a brand new Camry.

 

You need to compare apple to apple to see the savings. It is just maths.

 

This is purely based on my personal experience and others may have different experiences regarding driving COEed cars:-

 

Over the years I have owned COEed cars as old as 23 years and maybe I have been really lucky, these cars hardly give me headache or big repair bills other than that of the usual wear n tear items. I feel it's important to buy an old car which has been well looked after by the previous owner(s) <---- needless to say actually.

 

In terms of numbers, you analysis above is spot on! My current 8 years old car is the subject of my tender love and care all along and i know it will easily last another 8 years, so i m hoping I could renew its COE depending only on how high PQP will be when the time comes, less dependent on the condition of the car due to the confidence i have.

[Voodooman]

 

This is purely based on my personal experience and others may have different experiences regarding driving COEed cars:-

 

Over the years I have owned COEed cars as old as 23 years and maybe I have been really lucky, these cars hardly give me headache or big repair bills other than that of the usual wear n tear items. I feel it's important to buy an old car which has been well looked after by the previous owner(s) <---- needless to say actually.

 

In terms of numbers, you analysis above is spot on! My current 8 years old car is the subject of my tender love and care all along and i know it will easily last another 8 years, so i m hoping I could renew its COE depending only on how high PQP will be when the time comes, less dependent on the condition of the car due to the confidence i have.

You are. Usually the GB will give way, then engine, then suspension....

 

Anyway, older cars are less fuel efficient (alone could cost > 10k over 10 years), less powerful, less safe, more repairs and maintenance (time is money to me), so I will not consider the renewal route.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Voodooman

[Tiger1]

 

This is purely based on my personal experience and others may have different experiences regarding driving COEed cars:-

 

Over the years I have owned COEed cars as old as 23 years and maybe I have been really lucky, these cars hardly give me headache or big repair bills other than that of the usual wear n tear items. I feel it's important to buy an old car which has been well looked after by the previous owner(s) <---- needless to say actually.

 

In terms of numbers, you analysis above is spot on! My current 8 years old car is the subject of my tender love and care all along and i know it will easily last another 8 years, so i m hoping I could renew its COE depending only on how high PQP will be when the time comes, less dependent on the condition of the car due to the confidence i have.

I am really keen to understand your analogy but I stupid la. Cannot understand. Can you help explain in more more simplified term? Not suaning you hor.

[Rantwb]

 

This Vios was sold on 2 Oct.

 

The date 2 days ago was 15 Oct.

 

Could it be another car?

Perhaps. Can't locate that ad liao.

:(

[Dafansu]

My vios is left with 2 months before end of COE, did a simple calculation if renewal is 5 years I will put down about 31k.

 

Retain Vios ($31k full payment, no loan)

$62 610 PQP (2 months ago)

$31 305 (5 yrs)

$6261 (1yr)

$521 (1 mth)

$638 (if inclusive lost of paper value about $7k)

 

 

Road Tax – Current $342

Renew COE

Year 1 $377

Year 2 $411

Year 3 $445

Year 4 $479

Year 5 $513

 

Inspection: will be yearly, $62

Insurance: cheaper, third party.

 

My maintenance is low avg $50 for minor servicing at JB. Major servicing might change more things at about $200.

 

Might need to do one major change of parts if renewing, eg belting, pulley etc will come up to avg maybe 1k.

 

My car mileage is low, now only 150k.

 

 

Car Cost for Kia K3 (Downpayment $39k, monthly $1103 for 5 years)

$98 999 Car Price

$6781 Interest

$105 780 Total Car Cost

$10 578 (1yr)

$881 (1 mth) (haven’t deduct PARF)

 

My preference for renewal is straight forward. No loans, no obligation of monthly payment for the next 5 years.

In case, COE suddenly drops to 20-30k (though unlikely, even with many car being scrap) I can just scrap my car and get back the balance COE to purchase a new car. eg. If COE drops to 30k next year, you can easily save from here against your forfeited PARF if you scrap you car and purchase a new one. (I also need to weigh the risk of 5 years later after my COE is up, the COE might be even higher than this)

 

I also intend to get a second property once my MOP for my flat is up. The loan of your car will affect the amount of loan you can get for a property under the TDSR framework at 60%.

 

I just need a B&B car for travel. Low maintenance, cheap servicing and fuel consumption is good at avg 13-14km/l. (read in the other thread one guy was charge $400+ for a simple 20k servicing for the new Mazda 3)

 

So I will either renew, or just go public or even scrap, hold and see the pricing again next end year. still monitoring the COE till Dec, though unlikely to change much.

 

To sum up, do your own calculation (hope my calculation is correct :) and see if it's worth it, every car might be different (for this case i'm comparing a B&B old vios and the newer B&B Kia K3) , and also see your lifestyle, needs and $$ you are willing to come out with. Buy when you are ready and able to service the loan.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Dafansu

[Mrmilktooth]

My vios is left with 2 months before end of COE, did a simple calculation if renewal is 5 years I will put down about 31k.

 

Retain Vios ($31k full payment, no loan)

$62 610 PQP (2 months ago)

$31 305 (5 yrs)

$6261 (1yr)

$521 (1 mth)

$638 (if inclusive lost of paper value about $7k)

 

 

Road Tax – Current $342

Renew COE

Year 1 $377

Year 2 $411

Year 3 $445

Year 4 $479

Year 5 $513

 

Inspection: will be yearly, $62

Insurance: cheaper, third party.

 

My maintenance is low avg $50 for minor servicing at JB. Major servicing might change more things at about $200.

 

Might need to do one major change of parts if renewing, eg belting, pulley etc will come up to avg maybe 1k.

 

My car mileage is low, now only 150k.

 

 

Car Cost for Kia K3 (Downpayment $39k, monthly $1103 for 5 years)

$98 999 Car Price

$6781 Interest

$105 780 Total Car Cost

$10 578 (1yr)

$881 (1 mth) (haven’t deduct PARF)

 

My preference for renewal is straight forward. No loans, no obligation of monthly payment for the next 5 years.

 

In case, COE suddenly drops to 20-30k (though unlikely, even with many car being scrap) I can just scrap my car and get back the balance COE to purchase a new car. eg. If COE drops to 30k next year, you can easily save from here against your forfeited PARF if you scrap you car and purchase a new one. (I also need to weigh the risk of 5 years later after my COE is up, the COE might be even higher than this)

 

I also intend to get a second property once my MOP for my flat is up. The loan of your car will affect the amount of loan you can get for a property under the TDSR framework at 60%.

 

I just need a B&B car for travel. Low maintenance, cheap servicing and fuel consumption is good at avg 13-14km/l. (read in the other thread one guy was charge $400+ for a simple 20k servicing for the new Mazda 3)

 

So I will either renew, or just go public or even scrap, hold and see the pricing again next end year. still monitoring the COE till Dec, though unlikely to change much.

 

To sum up, do your own calculation (hope my calculation is correct :) and see if it's worth it, every car might be different (for this case i'm comparing a B&B old vios and the newer B&B Kia K3) , and also see your lifestyle, needs and $$ you are willing to come out with. Buy when you are ready and able to service the loan.

 

 

agree on this.. if i want to have a second child, all this $$ has to come from somewhere ma..

 

anways COE aint gonna drop by much but 10K drop means less to pay for renewal .. lol

 

 

 

[Super7]

You are. Usually the GB will give way, then engine, then suspension....

 

Anyway, older cars are less fuel efficient (alone could cost > 10k over 10 years), less powerful, less safe, more repairs and maintenance (time is money to me), so I will not consider the renewal route.

Fortunately roads conditions are not bad here. Wear n tear is slower than some other countries.

 

Replacement of shocks, bearings, clutch, pads, rotors etc are part n parcel of owning older cars as these items are considered consumables to me. Different mindset from others who change their cars every 3, 4 to avoid such inevitable replacement costs. I have used a gearbox for 23 years and it's still going strong, an old school manual box.

 

Agreed with you that if the owner needs to use his car uninterrupted, workshop time is no no. Fortunately for me a day or two without the use of my car seems to work fine with me. Different circumstances. My time is inexpensive also. :-)

Edited October 18, 2014 by Super7

[Super7]

I am really keen to understand your analogy but I stupid la. Cannot understand. Can you help explain in more more simplified term? Not suaning you hor.

COEed cars are ok to own if you choose the right one :-)

[Chowyunfatt]

COEed cars are ok to own if you choose the right one :-)

Cars of the past are also less complicated ... No as much electronics ... Mostly mechanical ...

 

That's the main reason why some can last till this day ...

[Sg571958]

The existing public system cannot even cope during peak period, plus the frequent train breakdowns, and the govt wamts to encourage more people to depend on public transport? I dread the day 6.9m population becomes a reality.

The existing public system cannot even cope during peak period, plus the frequent train breakdowns, and the govt wamts to encourage more people to depend on public transport? I dread the day 6.9m population becomes a reality.

I believe you are born in Singapore huh? Welcome to "Sillypore". Over the years you should learn the fact that..

 

Isn't what our GOVERNMENT GOO FOR "IGNORANCE"?

[Mrmilktooth]

Fortunately roads conditions are not bad here. Wear n tear is slower than some other countries.

 

Replacement of shocks, bearings, clutch, pads, rotors etc are part n parcel of owning older cars as these items are considered consumables to me. Different mindset from others who change their cars every 3, 4 to avoid such inevitable replacement costs. I have used a gearbox for 23 years and it's still going strong, an old school manual box.

 

Agreed with you that if the owner needs to use his car uninterrupted, workshop time is no no. Fortunately for me a day or two without the use of my car seems to work fine with me. Different circumstances. My time is inexpensive also. :-)

 

manuals are much easier to maintain..

[Throttle2]

Car ownership cost is not only depreciation. It is certainly not just monthly instalments either.

No real comparison can be made on a dollar basis between two cars with different coe life unless you interpolate and include time value of money.

 

So bottomline is that, car is an expense. You buy what you can write off. Those who borrow to write off, i can only say "duh".

Those who insist if they borrow, they can make better use of the money, i say, perhaps but its a different risk taken.

Those who say they cant buy a car unless they borrow, i advise you not to buy a car, period.

 

At the end of the day, there are cars at $20k, $30k, $50k etc.... Most of the time Singapore lang buy a car to feed their own ego, so no need to lie about that.

 

If at the end of the day, i am wrong, please pardon me.

So whats your story?

Cars of the past are also less complicated ... No as much electronics ... Mostly mechanical ...

 

That's the main reason why some can last till this day ...

Is that contributing to the official statistic that 70% of Porsches ever built are still on the road today?

[Ben5266]

the minimum PARF that u will lose by renewing COE shld b abt $10k.

so, ($30k + $10k) / 5 = $8k per yr. take note of higher road tax too.

a brand new Mazda 3 is abt $10k per yr.

2k per year might not be enough for the repair...

then your time at the workshop... opportunity cost ....

 

better buy new car.

[Chowyunfatt]

Car ownership cost is not only depreciation. It is certainly not just monthly instalments either.

No real comparison can be made on a dollar basis between two cars with different coe life unless you interpolate and include time value of money.

 

So bottomline is that, car is an expense. You buy what you can write off. Those who borrow to write off, i can only say "duh".

Those who insist if they borrow, they can make better use of the money, i say, perhaps but its a different risk taken.

Those who say they cant buy a car unless they borrow, i advise you not to buy a car, period.

 

At the end of the day, there are cars at $20k, $30k, $50k etc.... Most of the time Singapore lang buy a car to feed their own ego, so no need to lie about that.

 

If at the end of the day, i am wrong, please pardon me.

So whats your story?

 

Is that contributing to the official statistic that 70% of Porsches ever built are still on the road today?

Value ... 😊