Aloysius Pang dies after SAF trg Ex in New Zealand

[Joseph22]

please lah... last time my reservist section got lawyer as a vehicle mechanic vocation

 

you mean they employ lawyers as regular technicians in saf?

 

ð¬ð

Your comprehension have problem?? We are talking about vocation in army. U bring in technican’s real job for what? U mean army NS man technican real civilian job must be technican.

[Lala81]

Ya lor.

 

There's an emergency stop button leh.  Then why nobody press? Many ?????? leh.

 

nobody encountered this situation before. 

Even if u know it's there, u may not have presence to press.

 

Just like how some people step on accelerator pedal when actually need to emergency brake.

[Weez911]

Some questioned why there are no sensors, the type we install at the lift door to prevent clamping when they sense people in between the lift and outside, in a multi-million dollar machine.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Weez911

[Carbon82]

Got some questioned why there are no sensors, the type we install at the lift door to prevent clamping when they sense people in between the lift and outside, in a multi-million dollar machine.

 

I have to emphasize that I knew nuts about tank operation, so my comment below is just purely a 3rd party view on the topic.

 

Sensor may not be feasible in consideration of the nature of operation. Imagine in real war time (or any emergency for the matter), gun cannot be put into position because sensors detected obstruction? Hell no... And the same for emergency stop button as some have mentioned. No right or wrong, but more of a tactical decision.

 

While all eyes are now on the other 2 personnel in the tank together with Aloysius, I actually have a different question, which might be an important factor leading to the incident. With reference to the 2 pictures below:

 

 

 

The position where the deceased was strike by moving part (gun barrel), is actually a DOOR! So my question is: What is the standard protocol/SOP/WI for maintenance and trouble-shooting of the Howitzer? Should the door be left opened (for safety, ventilation, emergency response, etc.), or should it be closed (for security, equipment operating requirement, etc.)??    

[Weez911]

I have to emphasize that I knew nuts about tank operation, so my comment below is just purely a 3rd party view on the topic.

 

Sensor may not be feasible in consideration of the nature of operation. Imagine in real war time (or any emergency for the matter), gun cannot be put into position because sensors detected obstruction? Hell no... And the same for emergency stop button as some have mentioned. No right or wrong, but more of a tactical decision.

 

 

 

I know nuts about howitzer operations also.

 

The question is on the sensor when the barrel is moving to a standby position (ie, firing stops/maintenance/repair), not when the barrel is moving up for firing. The standby position is in fact, the lethal position that might injure the crew. 

 

An analogy is the sensor on the lift door triggers only when the doors are closing, not when it is opening.

[Blueray]

Judge to chair COI looking into actor Aloysius Pang's death

 

Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen will also deliver a ministerial statement addressing recent national service training deaths when Parliament next sits on Feb 11.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/judge-to-chair-coi-looking-into-actors-death

[Enye]

Your comprehension have problem?? We are talking about vocation in army. U bring in technicanâs real job for what? U mean army NS man technican real civilian job must be technican.

wah ok... never mind

 

 

[Playtime]

If... if.. it's human error, saying so officially could effect insurance payment to the deceased.. just a tot.

[Volvobrick]

Screenshot_20190131_092127_com.facebook.katana.jpg

 

Hmm, don't know whether the door is opened inwards or outwards. If open inwards, perhaps could redesign it to open outwards. Maybe that could be a lifesaver if something similar would to happened in the future. Like the same thing gun lowered and the guy standing behind have a split second to quickly open the door and jump out.

 

Definitely opens outwards. All armoured vehicle doors open outwards.  The door was probably open too, and AP was pinned against the turret ring area according to the picture, not the door.  And also it is not possible physically to open an amoured door within a split second,  Often you need both hands to open the heavy door.

 

I guess (poor designs aside) it was human error rather than mechanical malfunction - either the person who lowered the barrel did not check/give verbal warning, or AP did not clear off (or move back into) the danger area despite the verbal warning.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Volvobrick

[Kusje]

If... if.. it's human error, saying so officially could effect insurance payment to the deceased.. just a tot.

 

Which insurer doesn't pay for human error?

 

Like that if I get into a car crash and die, no payment?

[Fitvip]

Definitely opens outwards. All armoured vehicle doors open outwards.  The door was probably open too, and AP was pinned against the turret ring area according to the picture, not the door.  And also it is not possible physically to open an amoured door within a split second,  Often you need both hands to open the heavy door.

 

I guess (poor designs aside) it was human error rather than mechanical malfunction - either the person who lowered the barrel did not check/give verbal warning, or AP did not clear off (or move back into) the danger area despite the verbal warning.

That is highly possible! It looks like there was a miscommunication or non-compliance of SOP.

[Angcheek]

I have to emphasize that I knew nuts about tank operation, so my comment below is just purely a 3rd party view on the topic.

 

Sensor may not be feasible in consideration of the nature of operation. Imagine in real war time (or any emergency for the matter), gun cannot be put into position because sensors detected obstruction? Hell no... And the same for emergency stop button as some have mentioned. No right or wrong, but more of a tactical decision.

 

While all eyes are now on the other 2 personnel in the tank together with Aloysius, I actually have a different question, which might be an important factor leading to the incident. With reference to the 2 pictures below:

 

 

 

 

 

The position where the deceased was strike by moving part (gun barrel), is actually a DOOR! So my question is: What is the standard protocol/SOP/WI for maintenance and trouble-shooting of the Howitzer? Should the door be left opened (for safety, ventilation, emergency response, etc.), or should it be closed (for security, equipment operating requirement, etc.)??    

 

From the look , there seem to have some space between the end of the barrel and the cabin wall / door . 

Are we able to identify the space width in this ? 

 

 

[Angcheek]

Definitely opens outwards. All armoured vehicle doors open outwards.  The door was probably open too, and AP was pinned against the turret ring area according to the picture, not the door.  And also it is not possible physically to open an amoured door within a split second,  Often you need both hands to open the heavy door.

 

I guess (poor designs aside) it was human error rather than mechanical malfunction - either the person who lowered the barrel did not check/give verbal warning, or AP did not clear off (or move back into) the danger area despite the verbal warning.

 

from one of the released news in FB , I think it was stated AP himself confirmed to the commander to Go ahead with the lowering of the barrel . How true no one knows . 

[Ichibawa]

Maybe he wasn't kiap by the bottom end of the barrel like what was reported? Its not logical that he was unaware that the barrel is moving and it takes 9 seconds for the barrel to be at standby position. I am sure he has ample time to react if he sees the barrel movement and straightaway can shout or move out of the way. 

[Knoobie]

Maybe he wasn't kiap by the bottom end of the barrel like what was reported? Its not logical that he was unaware that the barrel is moving and it takes 9 seconds for the barrel to be at standby position. I am sure he has ample time to react if he sees the barrel movement and straightaway can shout or move out of the way. 

though 9 secs sounds a lot.. perhaps his uniform was caught by the barrel when it is moving? that 9 secs may not seem a lot then.

[Ichibawa]

though 9 secs sounds a lot.. perhaps his uniform was caught by the barrel when it is moving? that 9 secs may not seem a lot then.

 

Among all the reports, the explanation of the emergency buttons, the roles of each crew, etc etc.. but no one points out who actually operates the gun lowering button.. or maybe its in some other reports that I have yet to come across yet, that is why I feel people are throwing smoke bombs here and there to create confusion and not relaying what actually happened and the short comings of the current procedure. 

[Bystander50]

way back during one of my ICTs, we were at the range to do our package, psi was around 280. TSR says stop if psi is 300.

 

air quality was really bad especially within the chambers. reservist officer called HQ to ask for guidance as psi was 280. HQ say ground decision, can suspend range if local conditions are really bad .... but remember range package MUST be completed during ICT hor ...

 

so continue lor ... otherwise have to book range, indent ammo etc for another shoot. LL ...

 

PSI280 still can see the target?

Can't imagine the run down to 15m from 100m in the haze.

 

[Yamapi]

A special tribute to  Aloysius Pang

 

https://video.toggle.sg/en/series/remembering-aloysius-1990-2019/ep1/748593