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Hong Kong protesters demonstrate against extradition bill

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Need to weigh the decision based on actual risk.

 

If my hotel is right smack in the middle of the protests, I will book a new one somewhere else. But if I am staying at disneyland, then the risk is still acceptable.

 

To me, HK trip might cost 2k for sunk costs. I might lose a day or 2's sleep over it but no big deal. But what about the fellow who saved up to bring his family on their first overseas trip? It's easy to say one should prioritize safety over money when they already have money.

 

 

what has this got to do with you asking me "Can cancel meh? Don't need travel advisory to be issued first?" ??? 

 

and whats has that fellow who saved up to bring his family on their first overseas trip got to do with you or me? 

 

are you saying those not so well off sld not care about their safety? 

 

boh liu bey sai kiasi? 

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i was there on sat and my hk relatives had received a whatsapp msg that anyone who go for the protest will get HKD1800.

 

hk has been all along a chess to the US and not surprise to see such protest against this extradition bill. there is a large

team of US intelligent  (more than a thousand) base in hk to collect sensitive info from china. this extradition bill will not

favour US activities in hk, and where do you think the fund of these opposition parties coming from?

 

in general, the new law is a good move to protect human right within china, hk, macau and Taiwan which is parts of china,

as it is written in the law to state what can be done and what cannot be done.

 

however, the new law may not favour to some of the businessman in hk and the western intelligent agency in hk. the younger

generation of the hk'er is too childish to believe that they will be better under the former british colonial without going through

that period. the older generation are confused fearing that their advantage towards the mainland will be taken over by them.

perhaps the high cost of living, high housing cost in the hk is one of the sparking point of this protest.

 

I have a lot of relatives living in hk and most of them take a positive view of the new amended law, as it will close up some

of the grey area between mainland and hk, macau and Taiwan (in future). they have confident that hk will be much prosperous

with the gov stand firm to push through those right decision that they had made.

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People suspect some of the police are from China. True or not, I dunno.

https://www.ntdtv.com/b5/2019/06/12/a102599516.html (Chinese text only)

 

 

just like gurkha, own people cannot handle their own resident especially some also disagree with the new law. Dun think HK police has sufficient manpower if the protest prolong. 

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People suspect some of the police are from China. True or not, I dunno.

https://www.ntdtv.com/b5/2019/06/12/a102599516.html (Chinese text only)

 

 

wont be surprise.

 

All HK police fall in also I think out numbered by the crowd, diao shui from Guangdong province very possible.. [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

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If this law really is about catching criminals running in from China, just say applicable to prc only, not hk or other nationalities. Simple.. why not? You trust the prc words??

 

 

There is also an economic dimension.

China is famous for just arresting people over commercial disputes, good luck getting any "justice"... call it bribery, local thugs, party officials grabbing money etc, they can and have done it.

People invest in hk cos they trust the British inherited judicial system there, just reported in BBC that jap companies that were planning to move from China to hk for better rule of law is now rethinking.. you bet everyone is thinking the same way now.

Edited by Playtime

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i was there on sat and my hk relatives had received a whatsapp msg that anyone who go for the protest will get HKD1800.

 

hk has been all along a chess to the US and not surprise to see such protest against this extradition bill. there is a large

team of US intelligent  (more than a thousand) base in hk to collect sensitive info from china. this extradition bill will not

favour US activities in hk, and where do you think the fund of these opposition parties coming from?

 

in general, the new law is a good move to protect human right within china, hk, macau and Taiwan which is parts of china,

as it is written in the law to state what can be done and what cannot be done.

 

however, the new law may not favour to some of the businessman in hk and the western intelligent agency in hk. the younger

generation of the hk'er is too childish to believe that they will be better under the former british colonial without going through

that period. the older generation are confused fearing that their advantage towards the mainland will be taken over by them.

perhaps the high cost of living, high housing cost in the hk is one of the sparking point of this protest.

 

I have a lot of relatives living in hk and most of them take a positive view of the new amended law, as it will close up some

of the grey area between mainland and hk, macau and Taiwan (in future). they have confident that hk will be much prosperous

with the gov stand firm to push through those right decision that they had made.

 

It's a very dichotomous relationship that HK has with china.

They are used to their independence, but their entire economic lifeblood is closely tied with China. 

The economic vibrance of HK is based on the fact, that there is close to western Judiciary, open financial system, yet just across the border to China.

 

It's quite obvious, the tension in the populous is bleeding over. 

 

If this was any other chinese province. There will be many dead yesterday. That's just a conservative prediction.

Heads have been broken in china for far far less.

 

wont be surprise.

 

All HK police fall in also I think out numbered by the crowd, diao shui from Guangdong province very possible.. [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

 

I think unlikely lah. If the police someone inside bao toh, even more protests

Edited by Lala81

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Was in HKG from Monday and came back yesterday evening . Stay at Wan Chai area , things seems normal on the streets , people minding their own business . No issues taking a cab to the airport also .

Would think that as Long as you avoid the protest area , should be fine .

 

But frankly , unless it’s business trip or you have urgent matters to attend , why go there now for holiday.

 

Yes , heard about the money reward to attend the protest from staffs and suppliers there . It’s pretty clear that there is foreign government behind these protests .

 

Would think that only UK should be able to comment as they have the agreement with China Lor .

 

The rest should just shut up , if not happy , just dun go HKG or withdraw all your investment Lor . China did not force you to invest lei ...

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however, the new law may not favour to some of the businessman in hk and the western intelligent agency in hk. the younger

generation of the hk'er is too childish to believe that they will be better under the former british colonial without going through

that period. the older generation are confused fearing that their advantage towards the mainland will be taken over by them.

perhaps the high cost of living, high housing cost in the hk is one of the sparking point of this protest.

 

 

HK always has the money and talent to create jobs of their future, only if and when their business and money stay there. 

HK also enjoys free speech and free press. The Hk people has good political sense. Without all these, it is like dying. 

 

 

Edited by Odyssey2011

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Actually the one who sent the messages regarding getting $ to attend the protests, should be tracked down and imprisoned.

Singapore has laws for that. Does HK have? Not sure.

 

viral messages like that can lead to really big trouble.

Edited by Lala81

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Finally I manage to go read up a little on this extradition bill. 

 

I am not law train, so i read with layman understanding.

 

In layman term, the bill simply means any Hongkonger if committed an unlawful event in China and run back to HK, if caught will still be send to china for prosecution.  Vice versa for the PRCs. 

 

How wrong is such a bill?  Logically it sound all correct to me in a layman understanding.

 

Hongkongers need to accept the fact that Hong Kong is part of China, "one country 2 system" only last for 50 years from 1997, and will expire in 2047, like it or not, it is a fact. In 2047, HongKong will officially be run by communist, no running away from this. 

 

20 years ago, china needed HK as a bridge to the outside world, today HK is no longer as valuable as it was to the CCP gov.  Trying to pass the bill is just a political correct and a nicer way to transit control faster without breaking that 50 years promise. 

 

But if XJP can abolish  the 2 term President-ship and make himself the ever lasting lao da, what and who can stop him from breaking the 50 years promise set by DXP, who is a dead man now? 

 

Communist is he talk no you talk, XJP can always declare that time has change, and the 1 country 2 system policy is no longer needed now. And suddenly HK will come under communist rules, no need pass this bill that bill, is just he wants to do it or not only...  [:p]  [laugh]  [laugh]

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Just saying, if conspiracy theory extends to undercovers in the crowd inciting violence, then it also wouldn't be surprising that undercovers sending those reward sms-es out to say that there's foreign influence.

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They playing the long game for eventual reconcillation with Taiwan. That one if happen many years down the road, sure fireworks many many 

Ultimately HK is just a city.

 

So that's why still putting on kiddy gloves (by chinese standards). 

 

Finally I manage to go read up a little on this extradition bill. 

 

I am not law train, so i read with layman understanding.

 

In layman term, the bill simply means any Hongkonger if committed an unlawful event in China and run back to HK, if caught will still be send to china for prosecution.  Vice versa for the PRCs. 

 

How wrong is such a bill?  Logically it sound all correct to me in a layman understanding.

 

Hongkongers need to accept the fact that Hong Kong is part of China, "one country 2 system" only last for 50 years from 1997, and will expire in 2047, like it or not, it is a fact. In 2047, HongKong will officially be run by communist, no running away from this. 

 

20 years ago, china needed HK as a bridge to the outside world, today HK is no longer as valuable as it was to the CCP gov.  Trying to pass the bill is just a political correct and a nicer way to transit control faster without breaking that 50 years promise. 

 

But if XJP can abolish  the 2 term President-ship and make himself the ever lasting lao da, what and who can stop him from breaking the 50 years promise set by DXP, who is a dead man now? 

 

Communist is he talk no you talk, XJP can always declare that time has change, and the 1 country 2 system policy is no longer needed now. And suddenly HK will come under communist rules, no need pass this bill that bill, is just he wants to do it or not only...  [:p]  [laugh]  [laugh]

 

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yah, i can comprehend this totally.

 

I was involved in a few fights at that age, and mostly gotten out of hand because blood boil fast, and once start boiling really tough to cool down. The last fight was in NS, I almost killed the fellow with an ET stick had the other guys not stopped me in time, big regret of my life.

 

Even now, I try not to listen to fast music when I drive, because it gets the blood flow alot faster and sometimes can get into attack mode.

 

If the atmosphere is right, i think uncles also will cheong !!! [:p][laugh][laugh]

appreciate if may be so kind as to remind me to watch my ass

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They aren't children lah. They are university students or around that age group.

 

From time immemorial, these are the people most easily stoked up by protest organisers.

Seldom see uncles like us at the frontline [laugh]

At what age a person is rebellious?

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Actually a lot of the anger comes from economic inequality in HK. The housing in particular. After a brief letdown in housing prices in 2018, it's like it never happened in 2019.

 

The youngsters are not just angry with the laws cos frankly if u logically think about it, the chance that the 1 specific law impact you is low.

But they are really angry with the whole social compact in HK. 

 


At what age a person is rebellious?

 

12 to early 20s.

Cos they are trying to break out of the identity that is inherited from their parents. Hence the moody sullen teenagers.

It's particularly bad in sec school haha

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Finally I manage to go read up a little on this extradition bill.

 

I am not law train, so i read with layman understanding.

 

In layman term, the bill simply means any Hongkonger if committed an unlawful event in China and run back to HK, if caught will still be send to china for prosecution. Vice versa for the PRCs.

 

How wrong is such a bill? Logically it sound all correct to me in a layman understanding.

 

Hongkongers need to accept the fact that Hong Kong is part of China, "one country 2 system" only last for 50 years from 1997, and will expire in 2047, like it or not, it is a fact. In 2047, HongKong will officially be run by communist, no running away from this.

 

20 years ago, china needed HK as a bridge to the outside world, today HK is no longer as valuable as it was to the CCP gov. Trying to pass the bill is just a political correct and a nicer way to transit control faster without breaking that 50 years promise.

 

But if XJP can abolish the 2 term President-ship and make himself the ever lasting lao da, what and who can stop him from breaking the 50 years promise set by DXP, who is a dead man now?

 

Communist is he talk no you talk, XJP can always declare that time has change, and the 1 country 2 system policy is no longer needed now. And suddenly HK will come under communist rules, no need pass this bill that bill, is just he wants to do it or not only... [:p][laugh][laugh]

the problem is if HK assimilation goes smoothly, it will make Taiwan less troublesome when the time comes.

 

 

 

the problem with the new law is, literally HK can send anyone back to which ever country where the supposed crime had committed as long as it valid. The hk courts cannot do anything else even if the requesting country got lousy legal system or poor human rights.

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I think unlikely lah. If the police someone inside bao toh, even more protests

 

 

for discussion only, but I dont see anything wrong with HK gov asking help and reinforcement police forces from china. HK is part of china, it is given a 50 years transit time to get use to being part of china, not running a separate system forever.

 

If the population of the protesting crowd outnumbered the local police force, it will put the safety of the police at risk sld it turn into a riot. 

 

The CCP would also not allow the HK gov to fall to the protesters, so sending in their chinese police force is not impossible.  I wont even write off the CCP sending tanks in... [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

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At what age a person is rebellious?

 

 

i spoke to a counselor, there are 2 rebellious stage and everyone thought it was 16-18 and maybe late 30 but we were all wrong.

 

the correct answer is 4-5 and 12-13   [laugh]  [laugh]

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i spoke to a counselor, there are 2 rebellious stage and everyone thought it was 16-18 and maybe late 30 but we were all wrong.

 

the correct answer is 4-5 and 12-13   [laugh]  [laugh]

late 30s I think is existential crisis

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for discussion only, but I dont see anything wrong with HK gov asking help and reinforcement police forces from china. HK is part of china, it is given a 50 years transit time to get use to being part of china, not running a separate system forever.

 

If the population of the protesting crowd outnumbered the local police force, it will put the safety of the police at risk sld it turn into a riot. 

 

The CCP would also not allow the HK gov to fall to the protesters, so sending in their chinese police force is not impossible.  I wont even write off the CCP sending tanks in... [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

 

No lah. the HK people are not so silly to force the PRC govt hand.

 

Few hundred thousand to 1 mil people, need to work/earn a living etc.

So u can see the earlier protest a lot of people, cos they just want to stand up say "we buay song".

When it comes to the actual trouble yesterday, probably only the most hardcore guys/gals left.

 

Even in a riot, most people are just stand around eye power  [laugh]

the problem is if HK assimilation goes smoothly, it will make Taiwan less troublesome when the time comes.

 

 

 

the problem with the new law is, literally HK can send anyone back to which ever country where the supposed crime had committed as long as it valid. The hk courts cannot do anything else even if the requesting country got lousy legal system or poor human rights.

 

yes.

It will specifically only need the approval of the administration. Not decided by LegCo. So if say your MP want to stand up for you, haha also have to stand one side diam diam  [laugh]

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Actually the one who sent the messages regarding getting $ to attend the protests, should be tracked down and imprisoned.

Singapore has laws for that. Does HK have? Not sure.

 

viral messages like that can lead to really big trouble.

Yes, i agree.

 

Or it may well be a scam. Give me your account number and name for the $ trsf. Then dun receive msg or calls. After awhile just give up number.

 

Seriously, if the govt just proceed to pass the bill with the seating in a private venue, what can the ppl do?

 

Riots and protests till last man leaning against the lamp-post?

 

HK belongs to China. That's a fact. China should not but CAN change whatever has been agreed with UK before they handed over.

 

Were there penalties for not following the Accord signed? I seriously doubt so its spelt out but the spirit of that will be if words are not kept, China will lose trust of alot of ppl and countries. But is this a big deal with China? I doubt so.

 

Today this extradition law. Tomo another law. 3 months later 2 more laws. Every time there will be protest ending in riots?

 

I empathise with the ppl of HK. They were promised 50 years of status quo in rule of law. Their protests showed China have interfered beyond an agreed comfort line.

 

Yet, are the ppl of HK not at the same time, gathering momentum for democracy? Which action is the result of this?

 

Did China change its soft approach because it saw HK gunning for democracy? Or did HK started wanting democracy because of China's poor track record of keeping promises?

 

There are definitely external foreign powers at play. They are always there, in the shadows, waiting for an opportunity to rush in to plunder and steal while ppl are preoccupied with internal strifes. Most times their "equipment of chaos" in place, just need distraction to draw eyes of authorities away to come steal.

 

Ok. Pardon the long yada. Despite whatever, i hope the hidden players are brought down, as many as possible. These are the real trouble makers with fake or false alarms. They treat ppl like idiots, puppets.

 

Safe ride

Cheers

 

Ps : sorry doc. My tots run and i included them in this post. Hope u dun mind. Cheers

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the problem is if HK assimilation goes smoothly, it will make Taiwan less troublesome when the time comes.

 

 

 

the problem with the new law is, literally HK can send anyone back to which ever country where the supposed crime had committed as long as it valid. The hk courts cannot do anything else even if the requesting country got lousy legal system or poor human rights.

 

I think HK and TW are a little different. HK is officially part of china, TW is a little more complicated. It would also depends on who is the ruling party in TW when the time arrive for the CCP to decide to act. 

 

I am not law train so I really cannot fully comprehend the real impact, I read it from a layman perspective only... [:p]  [laugh]  [laugh]

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No lah. the HK people are not so silly to force the PRC govt hand.

 

Few hundred thousand to 1 mil people, need to work/earn a living etc.

So u can see the earlier protest a lot of people, cos they just want to stand up say "we buay song".

When it comes to the actual trouble yesterday, probably only the most hardcore guys/gals left.

 

Even in a riot, most people are just stand around eye power  [laugh]

 

 

 

 

I see everyday reports flood of ppl at the protest, like the crowd was growing everyday, how are we to tell if crowd has grown or lessen from here?  [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

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Should have Chong Kong our Terrex. Can be put into good use...

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