Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners

[Sdf4786k]

1 hour ago, Philipkee said:

Actually there is.  It's called forecasting.  Predicting the next big thing instead of waiting for it to happen and then preparing for it.  Not easy but that's what the high salaries are for.

If you believe that, than you believe the wealth Manager RM who tells you the strategy. They also tell you historic data is just that. Historic and does not accurately forecast the future. Else we can just use Phyton and AI . We still have QUAN who write algo but thats basically it.  And the best strategy is a free lunch aka diversity.

And then show you the 60% equity and 40% bond  portfolio. And rebalance it every year and earn your service fee.

LOL

 

[Lethalstrike]

22 hours ago, Kyrios said:

Im gonna draw flak for saying this....but...Have personally met with a few arrogant and haughty folks from across the causeway who think is their goddamn right to be here...Iam surprised because we are supposed to be 'closer' and 'friendlier' since we share almost similar cultures...but no..these MY PRs expect same privileges as citizens and kpkb if they dun get the same treatment...

Do Canadians behave in the same way in US and vice versa? I feel in another country we should treat each other with respect and humility instead of always having the thinking that the host country cannot do without me (the Permanent Resident) etc etc...

And I hate to say this..again will prob kena flame but I think the distinction between citizens and PRs has just got to be upped a few notches.

Human nature at work. If the exchange rate difference is 1 USD = 3 CAD, they might have the same problems too

Hell, if the situation was reversed 1 MYR = 3 SGD and i become a PR to work in Malaysia and have the best of both worlds, I will secretly laugh at the plight of the average Malaysian while I get to own a nice house and car and prepare for a nice retirement back home in Singapore, after a few decades of work in Malaysia. 

[SuPerBoRed]

1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

 U always need to hire ft if the company wants the better candidates.

Can you agree that the above is not always the case..  And as an employee.. Im upset with the government for not having better safeguards...  if I'm losing on merit...  I'm fine.. but if I'm losing becoz I'm not the same nationality as the decision maker in my home ground... I'm going to be pissed

[Lethalstrike]

20 hours ago, Kyrios said:

I think CCS is saying something like to create one (1) job for a true blue..you need to employ 99 other FTs so that the company wont leave Singapore for other greener pastures...so is a necessary evil..otherwise MNCs will just leave and none of us will be employed..something lidat lah..

That's true, especially when we are stuck with a strategy which is highly dependent on foreign MNCs.

To be fair, we did try to grow our own MNCs but you know lah, in a society which regards talent as someone who has everything going smoothly in life rather than someone who failed multiple times before becoming successful, its fat hope that we will have our own MNCs to be proud of. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Lethalstrike

[Sdf4786k]

17 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

Human nature at work. If the exchange rate difference is 1 USD = 3 CAD, they might have the same problems too

Hell, if the situation was reversed 1 MYR = 3 SGD and i become a PR to work in Malaysia and have the best of both worlds, I will secretly laugh at the plight of the average Malaysian while I get to own a nice house and car and prepare for a nice retirement back home in Singapore, after a few decades of work in Malaysia. 

Not necessarily. I know for a fact when the exchange rate for ringette goes worst to > than 3 the bosses in Singapore thinks that the Malaysian already has a pay rise and rewards the common villagers more than they deserve.. 

[Lethalstrike]

3 minutes ago, Sdf4786k said:

Not necessarily. I know for a fact when the exchange rate for ringette goes worst to > than 3 the bosses in Singapore thinks that the Malaysian already has a pay rise and rewards the common villagers more than they deserve.. 

And who says Singaporean bosses are stingy b**tards? 😁

[Beregond]

7 hours ago, Fuelsaver said:

答非所问

Comprehension fail

not comprehension fail.

exactly opposite, he know exactly what is being ask, but he cannot say out the answer, so he avoided it.

then drag in other stuff to make in grey . drift to other topic .

he knew he lost in that discussion/ debate . alot of ppl does that everywhere.

[Playtime]

29 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

That's true, especially when we are stuck with a strategy which is highly dependent on foreign MNCs.

To be fair, we did try to grow our own MNCs but you know lah, in a society which regards talent as someone who has everything going smoothly in life rather than someone who failed multiple times before becoming successful, its fat hope that we will have our own MNCs to be proud of. 

Well.... Creative... it seems they were fighting against it instead of support. 

Who knows what could have been..

[Sdf4786k]

18 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

And who says Singaporean bosses are stingy b**tards? 😁

hmm.. see how this goes..

singapore bosses not equal to singaporean... and hence this thread...

You ass_u_me that singapore boss = singaporean....

[Philipkee]

2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Ok then if u are the government to solve this ft issue , u forecast that solar and wind industry will be the next big thing a few years down the road. 
are u going to take the lead and gear the University towards that in preparation? Let assume you get your forecast right... Can u attract the TOP 10% of Singaporeans to take up courses in solar/wind tech now when there are no jobs in Singapore on those stuff? Government will have to invest in r&d now and those require ft now to kick start. At the end of the day, what government says is right. 
i really think the big disconnect here is not that the public do not understand the need for ft, they unhappy that the higher pay jobs never seemed to get passed to the locals over time. Ft seems to be always there in large numbers. 
To me, the government needs to stop selling that those jobs will be passed to locals. the reasons why we need ft is not going to change... the high tech industry is always changing fast. U always need to hire ft if the company wants the better candidates.

even in this case, getting the jobs here with ft help is better than losing the MNC.

A simple case is for the FT working in singapore, think about how much of his pay gets plowed back into rents (mostly Singaporeans landlords...) expenses, education, etc. 

I dont fully agree with you but your post is logical so any disagreement is probably difference in opinion

If i were the govt, I will mandate that army camps start converting to using clean energy and set up a GLC just for that.  I would start with Tekong since I have an entire island to play with to build solar panels.  I will hire FT in the  beginning.   I will encourage schools to offer this course and offer bursaries to aspiring students (like nursing).  You dont need the top 10%.  You just need willing learners and workers.  Once the industry is stable and established you can think further.  Like nursing.  Years ago u got 30 points in o levels you can still get in.  It's different  now.

As more camps get converted, it will be easier to move on to other buildings cos u have seen what are the issues and limitations.

Eventually I can mandate that all new buildings must have a certain percentage of clean energy use to get subsidies or even to build.  And slowly to existing buildings.  Once you have a critical mass, companies will find a more efficient way to build clean energy.

But this will be a long project and probably need a GLC.  Unless a foreign company wants to set up a R&D here.  And of cos use biofuel (oil from cooked food?  Not sure if it has been done).  Singaporeans do eat a lot.

For FT, I will tax the remittances as well.  Problem with earning from rentals is only a few will benefit.

Also I will tax the online purchases as will with a cut in GST for off line purchases.  Like for every 2% increase in tax for online purchase i cut 1% off GST.  Hopefully this will stimulate spending within the country.

I assume I am minister in everything.   In real life I know got politics and not so easy to get things done.

2 hours ago, Sdf4786k said:

If you believe that, than you believe the wealth Manager RM who tells you the strategy. 

 

I know of someone who forecasted that construction will be the next big thing years ago and he joined civil engineering.  And he specialised in foundations because many civil engineers dont want to specialise in that cos civil engineers want to see their work and not have it covered up once the building is made.  And he knows the foundation is all important actually and since there is shortage there is money to be made.

So yea his forecast was spot on. Of cos if he was wrong....

Edited January 9, 2020 by Philipkee

[Sdf4786k]

3 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Ok then if u are the government to solve this ft issue , u forecast that solar and wind industry will be the next big thing a few years down the road. 
are u going to take the lead and gear the University towards that in preparation? Let assume you get your forecast right... Can u attract the TOP 10% of Singaporeans to take up courses in solar/wind tech now when there are no jobs in Singapore on those stuff? Government will have to invest in r&d now and those require ft now to kick start. At the end of the day, what government says is right. 
i really think the big disconnect here is not that the public do not understand the need for ft, they unhappy that the higher pay jobs never seemed to get passed to the locals over time. Ft seems to be always there in large numbers. 
To me, the government needs to stop selling that those jobs will be passed to locals. the reasons why we need ft is not going to change... the high tech industry is always changing fast. U always need to hire ft if the company wants the better candidates.

even in this case, getting the jobs here with ft help is better than losing the MNC.

A simple case is for the FT working in singapore, think about how much of his pay gets plowed back into rents (mostly Singaporeans landlords...) expenses, education, etc. 

And thats how we arrived at a situation where we "diversified" and our many IT courses that churned out graduate were no where as near as our Uptron graduates who found jobs in Singapore.

None were certified or certifiable. 

Probelm with the education system is you dont want to place your bets on the wrong pathway.

1. You dont want to be perceived to prefer i.e Oracle vs Microsoft

even in todays context, AWS, Ali cloud, AZURE, Oracle. does the education want to go into one specific one or get all certified? And whats the duration to training them? Where got time to make them so well immersed in tech for everyone. 

So its easier to be generic and get none. So the CECA without the army experience but with a bit of cert will be a better bet . Its like maggi noodle . Just add water ( big salary). as they already certified and will clock experience because your workforce also dont have such people that is certified.

The MIW would tell you they are now trying to correct the situation (9 years too late) and for 3rd year, the industry attachment will help with the job experience. Similar to how the Germans has done it. But not likely the same success.

2. Its not a guarantee that they may use what was taught. They may become sales or even Grab , Uber so no love lost

3. New changes may make the graduate oversaturated with one over the other.

So we continue with minor changes and adjust accordingly and "live with our area of constrains" every 5 years.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Sdf4786k

[Wind30]

1 hour ago, Philipkee said:

I dont fully agree with you but your post is logical so any disagreement is probably difference in opinion

If i were the govt, I will mandate that army camps start converting to using clean energy and set up a GLC just for that.  I would start with Tekong since I have an entire island to play with to build solar panels.  I will hire FT in the  beginning.   I will encourage schools to offer this course and offer bursaries to aspiring students (like nursing).  You dont need the top 10%.  You just need willing learners and workers.  Once the industry is stable and established you can think further.  Like nursing.  Years ago u got 30 points in o levels you can still get in.  It's different  now.

As more camps get converted, it will be easier to move on to other buildings cos u have seen what are the issues and limitations.

Eventually I can mandate that all new buildings must have a certain percentage of clean energy use to get subsidies or even to build.  And slowly to existing buildings.  Once you have a critical mass, companies will find a more efficient way to build clean energy.

But this will be a long project and probably need a GLC.  Unless a foreign company wants to set up a R&D here.  And of cos use biofuel (oil from cooked food?  Not sure if it has been done).  Singaporeans do eat a lot.

For FT, I will tax the remittances as well.  Problem with earning from rentals is only a few will benefit.

Also I will tax the online purchases as will with a cut in GST for off line purchases.  Like for every 2% increase in tax for online purchase i cut 1% off GST.  Hopefully this will stimulate spending within the country.

I assume I am minister in everything.   In real life I know got politics and not so easy to get things done.

I think the government is doing similar things to what you mentioned but that does not solve the FT problem. 

Unlike nursing, tech industry do not last forever... Example harddisk industry in singapore is almost dead. Semicon as in wafer Fab is dying. 

You assume that you can hire FT for the first few years to build up and then switch to locals for the next 50 years using the same skillset... 

does not work that way, that is why I say FT is always needed as there is always the next big thing and the old big thing will die and you end up with retrenched 40+ workers...

we haven't even touched on what if the forecast is wrong....

 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Wind30

[Kb27]

it's that simple.

if the figures, the numbers does not look good in pap's favour, the gahmen is not going to give numbers., only when it looks good.

bcuz you all can't handle their truth.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Kb27

[Philipkee]

1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

 

we haven't even touched on what if the forecast is wrong....

 

 

My opinion?  Even if forecast is wrong is no issue if u did what needed to be done (climate change). The problem is when you forecast a fad and everyone follow are u r wrong.  I think biopolis or micropolis was the issue where a lot of people went to study life sciences but up no job. 

I agree.  Skill sets can change year to year. That's why you need someone up there to make sure you are not simply repeating the training year after year.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Philipkee

[Mkl22]

5 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Ok then if u are the government to solve this ft issue , u forecast that solar and wind industry will be the next big thing a few years down the road. 
are u going to take the lead and gear the University towards that in preparation? Let assume you get your forecast right... Can u attract the TOP 10% of Singaporeans to take up courses in solar/wind tech now when there are no jobs in Singapore on those stuff? Government will have to invest in r&d now and those require ft now to kick start. At the end of the day, what government says is right. 
i really think the big disconnect here is not that the public do not understand the need for ft, they unhappy that the higher pay jobs never seemed to get passed to the locals over time. Ft seems to be always there in large numbers. 
To me, the government needs to stop selling that those jobs will be passed to locals. the reasons why we need ft is not going to change... the high tech industry is always changing fast. U always need to hire ft if the company wants the better candidates.

even in this case, getting the jobs here with ft help is better than losing the MNC.

A simple case is for the FT working in singapore, think about how much of his pay gets plowed back into rents (mostly Singaporeans landlords...) expenses, education, etc. 

i dont deny the need for FT. i have had problems hiring locals who i always give priority in all cases. But what we need are better quality FTs, not some of the rubbish we get with unknown degrees coming in. a total lack of screening. same with offering PRs and citizenship. i don't think we want to take those who will add to our expenses more than contribute to it.

 

[Kusje]

wah. a lot of justification of why must hire ft and why cannot hire ft from the various sides.

just show us the data la. let us decide on our own - don't need to teach us how to interpret it!

[Philipkee]

39 minutes ago, Kusje said:

wah. a lot of justification of why must hire ft and why cannot hire ft from the various sides.

just show us the data la. let us decide on our own - don't need to teach us how to interpret it!

I think there is no data.  Meaning.  The minister can realise that highly paid jobs in company A goes to foreigners while the lowly paid ones goes to locals.   How does the minister know if the hiring process was fair? There is no independent source of info.  It's all based on what info the company provides (attitude of Singaporean interviewee during the interview etc which might not be accurate).  You need whistle blowers but it's still he said she said and usually no happy ending for whistleblower.

And there are Singaporean workers who are really lazy. So how to justify keeping them?  HR will ask.  There are foreigners with same attitude but how do you prove it?  You need a whistle blower if HR hides the fact- and no happy ending for whistle blowers.

In short, you can have lots of data.  But its accuracy and fairness is suspect.  Which is same as no data actually.

Singapore seems to have this attitude and that is rules are set and people will follow.  They never seem to consider that people will knowingly seek to break the rules and now they dont know how to handle it (as a corollary, maybe that is why we seem susceptible to scams?).

[Playtime]

1 hour ago, Mkl22 said:

i dont deny the need for FT. i have had problems hiring locals who i always give priority in all cases. But what we need are better quality FTs, not some of the rubbish we get with unknown degrees coming in. a total lack of screening. same with offering PRs and citizenship. i don't think we want to take those who will add to our expenses more than contribute to it.

 

Also why hundreds of millions are spent yearly for FT scholars?? While telling locals no need degrees. 🙄