VES 2018

[DACH]

re: "...The HDB is not even yours to start with."

 

Plse stop perpetrating falsehoods. One can keep the profits of HDB sale. One can keep the rents from tenants. You can choose to sell anytime after MOP. All this is ownership in fullest sense.

Falsehood? Who are you trying to fool? Unless you don't know that the HDB is a lease to you and not owned by you. They will have by means take it from you if they want it for other redevelopments.

 

Housing is for living, not for buying and selling, not your tool to make more money, as simple as that. All thanks to selfish people like you that the future generations are finding it more expensive just to have a roof over their heads.

[Si4dr]

re: "...The HDB is not even yours to start with."

 

Plse stop perpetrating falsehoods. One can keep the profits of HDB sale. One can keep the rents from tenants. You can choose to sell anytime after MOP. All this is ownership in fullest sense.

 

I think he mean we have to return our flat after 99yrs.....so it not ours...

[DACH]

If gahmen not real concerned, then you would not have clean water, power and safe HDB already. There would not be any parks and drainage, clean schools, or even rubbish chutes on every floor, every unit.

 

Those who are angry about this VES are really angry about having their toys taken away. But most of us are not really talented or skilled enough to earn more to be able to afford.

So which developed countries do not have the abilities that can provide the above facilities? Care to share.

 

Before you stereotype that everyone is buying a car for a toy, spare a thought for those families who have young kids and elderly parents. I have taken public transport for decades too and it's not that family friendly and it doesn't solve all our problems.

I agree that some people buy cars beyond their financial limits without planning just to show off. Fine, they probably deserve it but that doesn't mean everyone is like that. Latest survey shows that most people are actually contented with a Japanese car. These people needs a car for transportation, not show off, not buy and sell for profits.

Lastly, emissions standards are there to ensure the air is clean. Fair enough. The stringent EURO 6 standards already covers a good aspect on how the standards for global vehicle emissions. Why impose additional standards that are going to pass the costs to the families, businesses and even public transport commuters? Shouldn't such penalizations go to manufactureres instead to further expanding the range of greener cars?

Unless the VES will remain unchanged for the next 10 years that will cover EURO 7 and 8 standards or even beyond.

Edited March 17, 2017 by DACH

[Sktan10]

I think he mean we have to return our flat after 99yrs.....so it not ours...

Flat 99yrs ,car only 10yrs leh!

Got to buy 10 cars to cover 99yrs leh! heehee!

[Mkl22]

I am asking for all of us to be more responsible and informed when we post.

 

re: ...HDB is a lease...They take it from you if they want it for other redevelopments...

One is given new flat with priority if that is the case. Or paid market rate so that can buy home of choice. How many folks do you know who have had their hdb confiscated and given to a minister? I only know of one chap who had hdb confiscated, but that was because of illegal subletting and contempt of court. And he was keeping the rents for years.

 

The only case of residents nearing 99years end of lease is in Tiong Bahru. But those folks got extended lease free, and then got privatised. I don't know of anyone who has been left homeless because of 'evil' gahmen, unless they are truly anti-social and irresponsible behaviour harmful to neighbours and community.

 

It would be better to speak from an informed position. Do you have a HDB? Have you sold one? Or are you in private housing? Or still suckling on parents, and ignorantly complaining?

 

I don't know of anyone who has lived in a flat for 99 years and then was kicked out homeless. Do you?

 

In all cases, SERS gives one a new flat if age of the unit hits 35 years or more. And HDB can be bequeathed/transfered to ones children too. This not true ownership?

 

i think you are the ignorant one.

 

HDB is the lessor and the other party is the lessee. check all your contracts and documents with HDB, you will see these 2 terms mentioned.

 

If you really own it legally, why are such terms used? you don't see it in a private property.

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Mkl22

[DACH]

I am asking for all of us to be more responsible and informed when we post.

 

re: ...HDB is a lease...They take it from you if they want it for other redevelopments...

One is given new flat with priority if that is the case. Or paid market rate so that can buy home of choice. How many folks do you know who have had their hdb confiscated and given to a minister? I only know of one chap who had hdb confiscated, but that was because of illegal subletting and contempt of court. And he was keeping the rents for years.

 

The only case of residents nearing 99years end of lease is in Tiong Bahru. But those folks got extended lease free, and then got privatised. I don't know of anyone who has been left homeless because of 'evil' gahmen, unless they are truly anti-social and irresponsible behaviour harmful to neighbours and community.

 

It would be better to speak from an informed position. Do you have a HDB? Have you sold one? Or are you in private housing? Or still suckling on parents, and ignorantly complaining?

 

 

I don't know of anyone who has lived in a flat for 99 years and then was kicked out homeless. Do you?

 

In all cases, SERS gives one a new flat if age of the unit hits 35 years or more. And HDB can be bequeathed/transfered to ones children too. This not true ownership?

That's not true ownership. That's perceived ownership. Legally, it's not yours. It belongs to the Government. It is a lease, 99 years. The government has the right to take it back for redevelopments if it has to.

Even if the owner doesn't engage in any illegal business to warrant a confiscation, it will be taken back for redevelopments. And you can't modify the house without permission, you can't rent it using airbnb because you need to seek the govt for permission.

While the govt doesn’t kick out the dwellers for no reason, it is not yours to start with. It belongs to the govt, and it's a lease from them. A lease, ownership is them. You don't have the rights to bargain with them on the prices, you have no right to modify to suit your needs.

[Spring]

Could you guys kindly stick to the topic on carbons emissions scheme instead of bringing in HDB and other side issues? Thank you!

[Googoo]

Someone is screwing with your mind lah. Not true ownership? The profit from the sale into ones bank account is true hard cash man!

 

re: redevelopments. Do you know of anyone who has undergone SERS and not gotten a better new flat? My wife's aunt like to complain about her SERS, but when you press her, she admit that she took the market price compensation and bought private instead. Liar.

 

re: ...can't modify the house without permission. You obviously don't live in private condo because those have loads of renovation restrictions too. It's to stop dangerous, structurally weakening reno work.

 

re: ...can't rent it using airbnb. Private condos will clamp down here too. But one can rent/sublet HDB room and keep the proceeds. One is a minor-landlord, no?

 

re: ...it's a lease from gahmen. But which private landlord allows one to keep the sale profits, rental proceeds, bequeath to kids. One can do anything one wants similar to private. You are getting your hackles up over imagined evil.

 

re: ...you dont have the rights to bargain with them on the prices...

Since when we cannot bargain over resale HDB? Since when citizens do not get subsidies for below-market price BTO? And whatever reno you do you can still bargain with the contractor, right?

 

I get this feeling some who post here are not informed because they do not own HDB and are still living with parents.

 

 

not true ownership means not true ownership la. period.. hahahahahaha...

 

 

[Ahgong]

So which developed countries do not have the abilities that can provide the above facilities? Care to share.

 

Before you stereotype that everyone is buying a car for a toy, spare a thought for those families who have young kids and elderly parents. I have taken public transport for decades too and it's not that family friendly and it doesn't solve all our problems.

I agree that some people buy cars beyond their financial limits without planning just to show off. Fine, they probably deserve it but that doesn't mean everyone is like that. Latest survey shows that most people are actually contented with a Japanese car. These people needs a car for transportation, not show off, not buy and sell for profits.

Lastly, emissions standards are there to ensure the air is clean. Fair enough. The stringent EURO 6 standards already covers a good aspect on how the standards for global vehicle emissions. Why impose additional standards that are going to pass the costs to the families, businesses and even public transport commuters? Shouldn't such penalizations go to manufactureres instead to further expanding the range of greener cars?

Unless the VES will remain unchanged for the next 10 years that will cover EURO 7 and 8 standards or even beyond.

 

i also have been saying the same things as well.

wanna go for car lite? make sure the public transport structure is reliable.

by reliable, i mean the schedule is so blardy good, you can tune your watch with their schedule.

wanna go green? then have the proper infrastructure to support it (ie proper bike lanes, proper legislature for both motor/non-motor vehicular usage, proper grid to handle hybrid/electric car... etc etc)

 

the current situation lacks on both fronts. and we are now being slapped with more cost just to get thru the day.

that to me, is poor planning, lousy foresight and not worth the MILLIONs being paid to them by MY TAX dollars!

all cost, no value == tulan!

 

and to top it all off, no alternative avenues (at least from my level, other than that once-every-four-or-five-year vote) challenge or change these policies that are forced down our throat! 

[Lordmazex]

Speaking of Beijing....

 

How do you download the kuadi app since it is not in the google store? I thought to use uber but now cannot already. Checked online and grab is supposed to have cross-border usage in China but also not working.

 

I was foolishly given a fake 100RMB note by the cab driver. Sian. I was still in the taxi when I figured it out but it was quite a secluded place so I dare not make a fuss.

 

http://dl.pconline.com.cn/download/90166.html

 

Just access the above link from your android phone and press download. It should help. if needs to. go to baidu to search for didi download in chinese. Cheers.

[Leafable]

If the government really concern about the air quality of Singapore they didn't go far enough.

 

They should encourage people to buy Electric Car like the Scandinavian countries. Some Scandinavian countries tax their car like Singapore does to like 200% to 300% tax. But when you choose EV you don't have to pay CO2 tax and NOx tax which can run up to 200%.

 

I'm sure Singapore LTA can come up with like 50% off the ARF and COE for EV to encourage buyer to switch.

 

Charging infrastructure is very easy to set up especially in small country like Singapore.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Leafable

[Leafable]

Who is willing to pay for the instant build out of such charging stations? Am I willing to pay more tax for next ten years just so that a small number of vehicle brands can sell expensive, high OMV cars to a small number of folks?

 

The petrol kiosks across singapore are all privately owned. In the past, single kiosks could be even private property. Gahmen was never involved in their build out.

 

We have to stop thinking that something can suddenly appear for free in singapore just because we think it is cool and great. I had this mistaken belief even a few years out of university. Once one start to have family and buy house, one will understand how difficult it is to run peaceful and progressive multicultural, multiethnic nation.

 

I'm not sure where did you saw the word "free" in the post. In Singapore nothing is "free" thats for sure. I'm not sure what Electric Mobility have to do with or related to cultural. Drift too far?

 

Charging Stations already exist but not enough that all.

 

[Kusje]

not true ownership means not true ownership la. period.. hahahahahaha...

You do realize that even freehold private property are subject to eminent domain laws?

 

And even the so called bastion of the free world, USA, has such laws?

[DACH]

i also have been saying the same things as well.

wanna go for car lite? make sure the public transport structure is reliable.

by reliable, i mean the schedule is so blardy good, you can tune your watch with their schedule.

wanna go green? then have the proper infrastructure to support it (ie proper bike lanes, proper legislature for both motor/non-motor vehicular usage, proper grid to handle hybrid/electric car... etc etc)

 

the current situation lacks on both fronts. and we are now being slapped with more cost just to get thru the day.

that to me, is poor planning, lousy foresight and not worth the MILLIONs being paid to them by MY TAX dollars!

all cost, no value == tulan!

 

and to top it all off, no alternative avenues (at least from my level, other than that once-every-four-or-five-year vote) challenge or change these policies that are forced down our throat!

All these means cost.

Does the people want to foot the bill in the first place?

People would prefer their own transport and don't mind spending on it, since they have something for themselves in different needs to come.

[Leafable]

Super fast, instant roll out of charging stations enmass means must pay highest cost, right? How to convince private sector to share the burden? You mean gahmen can force private sector to build for free just because citizens demand it? And must take a risk with untested technology, right? And in the end only those who can afford the high omv electric vehicles will enjoy, right?

 

Does not solve the mass transportation problem during peak hours, right?

 

We need to stop fixating on a pet solution that looks cool, and examine a staged introduction of the best future-proof clean tech.

 

Again not sure where did you read "free". End user need to pay to use the charging station. The equipments and the electricity is not free.

 

Seems like you don't really understand the concept of "encouraging" people who can afford car/cars to go Electric. Untested tech? It's already a proven technology and these technology work perfectly in Singapore. They only need to improve the tech gradually.

 

This technology will be adapted in Singapore soon or later. Will depend on the government policy to encourage car buyer.

[Ahgong]

Are you the only one in singapore who refuse to use the aircon buses, hire grab/uber, use electric bicycle/scooter, hail taxi, buy used-car, renew COE? Even MRT is also aircon, empty during off-peak and every 6 mins.

 

No alternatives?

 

Or maybe we should admit that one is lusting after the amg merc e-class only. So it's a case of goal post move away but not enough skill or talent to make more money.

 

read my other posts. 

i have a wheel chair bound, two, sometimes 3 toddlers (if my niece has to tag along due to her mom's work commitments), one more old parent, a two strollers and 3 diaper bags.

 

those alternatives are not exactly family friendly.

and the cost of using uber/grab/taxi, with the frequency that i bring my family out, the cost of hiring two cars each time outweighs the cost of owning a car (and i am only looking at china/korean pocket friendly models that can accomodate my whole family).

 

try, seriously, try bring them to a simple place like gardens by the bay, then you talk.

[Beehive3783]

Don't b1tch too much about the north.

 

I'm sure the raw material of some of the food you eat, roads you use, pavements you walk are transported from the north in these smokey Euro ZERO trucks.

 

You want LTA to play punk with them = suicide.

 

I wonder how many vehicles come in from the north daily and are these vehicles meeting all the emissions we are so concerned about?

Should have an inspection centre at the check points to conduct checks if we are serious about pollution and not just taxes.

 

You have your point, but SG is just a farking little dot on the map.

 

Whatever nonsense about being environmentally friendly or what crap about smog that LTA talks about, all counts for nothing when Sumatra starts burning season.

 

In the end, it's all about the money.

 

Under the new VES criteria, most petrol and diesel vehicles trip over themselves on the NOx emissions even if they are EU6 compliant. The permissible range under VES for NOx emissions for the neutral band is half of what is permissible under EU6 standards. EU6 also has different emission standards for petrol and diesels with diesels permitted slightly higher NOx emissions but not by much, 0.06g/km (petrol) vs 0.08g/km (diesel).

 

The lean burning nature of diesels generates more NOx than petrols given the same engine capacity, that is where adblue is used to treat exhaust emissions to bring NOx down to acceptable EU6 limits. Even so, it will be significantly higher than what is permissible in the VES neutral band (NOx max is 0.024g/km). Particulate matter isn't really an issue since DPF on diesels have greatly reduced soot and other undesirable particulates and should be within the permissible range of VES. Hence, car manufacturers are unlikely to re-jig their diesels to be compliant with VES since they are already EU6 compliant but falls under the surcharge band in VES.  

 

The cost justification would not make any sense considering that SG is an insignificant car market for diesels (actually any type of vehicle as we already have extremely restrictive vehicle ownership policies) in the first place. Some european car manufacturers have also declared that as emissions standards get stricter, the cost of making diesels compliant with future standards would not make economic sense and the focus in the future would be on hybrids or pure electric vehicles. However, diesels are definitely here to stay for the time being as they provide good drive-ability and low fuel consumption with acceptable emissions - which are what consumers in Europe look for when purchasing a vehicle. Many EU countries also offer rebates for vehicles that are eco friendly and currently, EU6 diesels still fall within that category.

 

VES would be one of the strictest if not the strictest emissions standards globally even though Singapore's air quality have remained extremely high compared to other industrialised nations over the years. It would also serve to curtail vehicle ownership even further while increasing the government's coffers at the same time.

 

[Googoo]

wah, unreasoning, illogical defiance and rejection of anything from gahmen just because of mistaken belief that gahmen is 'evil'.

 

I think most of us complain and grumble because we are self-centered and selfish.

 

 

i am saying technically u don't own a HDB.. whats so hard to understand? whether a not u can make money/renovate/swim naked in your hdb is all together another thing..

 

and no i did not say anything about gahment is "evil" and grumbling.. call a spade a spade la.. u simply dont own a HDB.. 

 

i dont know why u r so defensive when people say we don't own the hdb u live in.. lol.... i am grateful for the gahmen for a lot of things but it doesnt means i OWN MY HDB!!

 

hahahahahahahah.