Ben Davis not allowed to defer NS for Fulham stint

[SGCMmadman]

i posted b4.. end 1988 early89 i served bmt in 22SA wif fandis younger bro. haf way..he transfered to safsa n no need complete bmt. the bro was seated beside me n admitted to me hes not a gd footballer. kana struck lottery... can leave mono intake bmt haf way to safsa n no need be mortarman in future.

 

how many sporeans can hv premeiership club contract? fandi n sundram din get chance to smell english premier league. give ben a chance n make him serve ns in off season la. so many 'scholars' hv chance to defer.... tis case.... let the boy fullfill his dream for us sporeans.. if after age 21.. cant go in 1st team.. den serve full time la.

[Ysc3]

OK, I'm not for or against any particular case here. But I'm for a more flexible enlistment age for all Singaporean boys to pursue rare opportunities they may get at 18-19 year old, but unable to due to strict NS liabilities. You get one chance to go out and try for 2 years and come back and serve regardless.

 

Just my two cents.

playing the devil's advocate again;

 

the counsel's son really spoil the market liow for the rest of the younger boys.

 

if this guy can say he already decided to forgo his pink ic when he left, the rest might follow - at the most don't come back only mah ... and I am very sure most of them would prefer to stay in a place where they know they have a better chance at life.

 

in this case, ah ben go play football in England ... he will have a better career there than back home ... so he might just decide to stay there for good instead if he was allowed to leave SG.

 

same will go for the rest of SG's sons ... they can always arrange a friends and family meetup in JB when they carry another country's passport.

 

from what I deduce, the parent will have to decide for the son to do NS or not before he enter Kindergarten2 - else "put up a very big collateral" that the son will come back.

[Acemundo]

he can't return to SG liao or transit through singapore anymore after that.

Is he a dual citizen?

 

i believe his father is converted singaporean.....means 2nd generation ie offspring of his, need to serve ns and then qualify to become singapore citizen.  so if he don't serve ns, he is effectively renouncing his rights to citizenship.  this is not the same as the senior counsel's son, whose father is born singaporean and he himself is therefore also singaporean at birth.  he manage to siam because he went canada to study even conscription age....I know of another case also like this senior counsel's son who settled in canada and never come back to fulfill ns obligation.  now, he also knows better than to step foot on singapore.  hence when his father comes back to visit friends, he never follow along.  i think he is an adult 20+ already.  father is rich, so can still set up an international school in shanghai for him to run.

 

i also support ben davis decision to renounce citizenship...it will serve as stoic reminder for the civil servants in office to get off their high horses and be less smug in thinking that many people are clamouring for the singapore passport....

 

afterall, our citizenship is already cheapen many years ago when they grant it to people like edgmar goncalves, itimi jackson, precious e and even some others like the one that was recently in the headlines for having his citizenship revoked dued to taking soccer bribes.

[Mkl22]

i believe his father is converted singaporean.....means 2nd generation ie offspring of his, need to serve ns and then qualify to become singapore citizen. so if he don't serve ns, he is effectively renouncing his rights to citizenship. this is not the same as the senior counsel's son, whose father is born singaporean and he himself is therefore also singaporean at birth. he manage to siam because he went canada to study even conscription age....I know of another case also like this senior counsel's son who settled in canada and never come back to fulfill ns obligation. now, he also knows better than to step foot on singapore. hence when his father comes back to visit friends, he never follow along. i think he is an adult 20+ already. father is rich, so can still set up an international school in shanghai for him to run.

 

i also support ben davis decision to renounce citizenship...it will serve as stoic reminder for the civil servants in office to get off their high horses and be less smug in thinking that many people are clamouring for the singapore passport....

 

afterall, our citizenship is already cheapen many years ago when they grant it to people like edgmar goncalves, itimi jackson, precious e and even some others like the one that was recently in the headlines for having his citizenship revoked dued to taking soccer bribes.

It’s Everyman for himself la. Our leaders already show hand that that’s why they do too. I support Ben renouncing and pursuing his dreams. Mindef already showed where they stand.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Mkl22

[Acemundo]

south korea also got conscription law.....son heung min was allowed to defer and go back to serve until he is done with football for good.

while ben davis is no son, but it shows that south korean authorities understands that the conscription age is also the prime age for football players and they are willing to wait till he is old and no longer playing football.  1 less conscripted young soldier doesn't throw their national service into disarray nor does it open the floodgates for abuse from other would-be conscripted soldier since he would still have to serve when he stops playing football, say in his 30s.

[Beanoyip]

So anyone knows? If one gives up citizenship while enlistment notice have been served, is he considered as defaulted NS?

[SuPerBoRed]

lets get real here...  Ben's father(not a singaporean by birth) 

Ben's mother (also not a singaporean) 

only ''threaten'' to renounce citizenship... still not done it...

why??... becoz singapore citizenship got its benefits.

I am of the opinion that he is trying to force our gahmen's hand. 

 

This NS thing is not new... go tru the right process... rejected liao...  so be it. 

 

If Mindef bends over... not very right imo... 

Edited July 17, 2018 by SuPerBoRed

[Kusje]

Our army has a lot more male population to draw from then just a few Ben alone, we are not talking about making every other persons a Ben. SAF can set a restriction of say 5 or 10 persons per year etc. And i am sure we cant even find 5 persons who is bearly qualify for exemption. But if we dont make a first step to start from somwehre, instead just usingnour brain to keep thinking about how to say no, start asking question why.., if.., but.., what.., who.., then.. etc, then 10 years later we all will still be here debating the same topic.

Someone has to start from somewhere, there are enouh smart scholars in the SAF to solution this, does not matter the first few times may not be perfect but we will get there one day as long as a first step is made.

 

agreed agreed and agreed.

 

should start with me.

So anyone knows? If one gives up citizenship while enlistment notice have been served, is he considered as defaulted NS?

 

You can't give up citizenship past a certain age w/o being conscripted for NS (i think 7 or 8 years old?).

[Kusje]

If he dont serve NS here, i dont think he will be able to represent his adopted country. England got too many even better players than him.

 

So club level football is the maximum he can achieve. And he might cursed himself on making such decision.

 

As a footballer, i believe that everyone has a world cup dream.

 

Huh? I'm not a football fan but his chance of representing the world cup under england is definitely higher than the chance of singapore being in the world cup la 

[Acemundo]

So anyone knows? If one gives up citizenship while enlistment notice have been served, is he considered as defaulted NS?

 

bro, like i said earlier, i think very much depends on whether the enlistee is first gen or second gen citizens enlistee.

 

first gen means the boy is born as citizen because parents are also citizen at his birth.....2nd gen means his parents converted to singaporean sometime after he was born.

 

for first gen is default.....2nd gen is more like givng up citizenship because they need to serve ns to get their citizenship.

[Kusje]

It’s Everyman for himself la. Our leaders already show hand that that’s why they do too. I support Ben renouncing and pursuing his dreams. Mindef already showed where they stand.

 

i support him too. if i could renounce, i would have done so as well.

[Galantspeedz]

 

 

Who is going to decide who this 5 or 10 persons will be or who is qualified to be nominated to be selected ? Presidential committee ? Scholarship committee ? OK, I think there's a committee to pick candidates for SAFOS, with rather specific criteria (generally academic). They usually defer to go for their overseas studies soon after BMT/OCS service term. For so-called top talents in sports, arts, tech, and more, .. got specific criteria meh ? Who will say Fulham is more important than Berklee (music), or that Berklee is more important than Stanford, or that only a branded club/school will produce a world champion ? How many world champions never go through the "branded" path ? 

 

 

 

so because cannot determine specific criteria so cannot have exception meh?

 

1 bin centre also can spend $400k to study liao.... just get 3 top local people in the particular sport to decide lor.... quite sure cheaper than $400k

[Wt_know]

low citizen tax + most powderful passport ...

amdk and prc elites like to hold spore citizenship

 

why??... becoz singapore citizenship got its benefits.

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Wt_know

[Galantspeedz]

I think MINDEF also worry that if defer Ben NS, might be showing the world/b&b Sporeans that they gave preference treatment to AMDK citizen, esp. since the AMDK in question is not playing for our country honor.

 

his elder son served NS liao

Then who will decide on this exception ? You ? 

 

Read on what I wrote about South Korea's policy first.

 

you never see my suggestion in 2nd sentence?

 

i read liao.. i know you are all for flexibility... .is you never read my sentence properly leh

Edited July 17, 2018 by Galantspeedz

[Acemundo]

I don't think ROK defers NS just for football, I know a lot of Koreans who served NS only in their mid-20's. They are just ordinary people, going for university studies, overseas work, etc. 

 

South Koreans are required by law to apply for military service within 6 years from the time they turn 20. This means they can be enlisted anytime between 20-26 year old. 

 

See this below HKU article talks about the issue faced by South Koreans who study at HKU having to disrupt their studies for ROK NS. It's not our problem because we don't have a choice of doing university before NS, except for very selected few.

 

http://thelionpost.com/2016/04/20/south-korean-students-face-challenges-in-planning-university-education-around-mandatory-military-service/

what i cited about son's deferment is from radio this morning.....hope the sources are reliable though.

 

my view is that authorities should be less uptight about deferment, because 1 (or even 1000 more, to stretch the argument) more soldier at his prime doesnt mean that the national defence is any more tougher or secure.  authorities will usually say opening to 1 means opening the floodgates to others.  not everyone will have strong case to put in for deferment request.  the right to turn down rest with the authorities.  so using the reasoning that it will open the floodgates to others is rather frivolous.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Acemundo

[Jman888]

just stay in uk and never return to spore?

 

 

the father better dun talk so soon, to denounce one citizenship you better make sure you have granted one in UK, if not later become stateless.

[Wt_know]

ah gong scare spore elites all sent their "smart" kid

 

1. to italy ... to master painting

2. to france ... to master cooking

3. to germany .... to master violin

4. to MARS

 

all said ... defer NS only ... will come back to serve NS later

but ... if they really become successful ... isn't we want them to be ...

do you think they still come back? muahahahaha ....

 

my view is that authorities should be less uptight about deferment, because 1 (or even 1000 more, to stretch the argument) more soldier at his prime doesnt mean that the national defence is any more tougher or secure.  authorities will usually say opening to 1 means opening the floodgates to others.  not everyone will have strong case to put in for deferment request.  the right to turn down rest with the authorities.  so using the reasoning that it will open the floodgates to others is rather frivolous.

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Wt_know

[kdash]

i believe his father is converted singaporean.....means 2nd generation ie offspring of his, need to serve ns and then qualify to become singapore citizen. so if he don't serve ns, he is effectively renouncing his rights to citizenship. this is not the same as the senior counsel's son, whose father is born singaporean and he himself is therefore also singaporean at birth. he manage to siam because he went canada to study even conscription age....I know of another case also like this senior counsel's son who settled in canada and never come back to fulfill ns obligation. now, he also knows better than to step foot on singapore. hence when his father comes back to visit friends, he never follow along. i think he is an adult 20+ already. father is rich, so can still set up an international school in shanghai for him to run.

 

i also support ben davis decision to renounce citizenship...it will serve as stoic reminder for the civil servants in office to get off their high horses and be less smug in thinking that many people are clamouring for the singapore passport....

 

afterall, our citizenship is already cheapen many years ago when they grant it to people like edgmar goncalves, itimi jackson, precious e and even some others like the one that was recently in the headlines for having his citizenship revoked dued to taking soccer bribes.

i can say that this decision will not affect those civil servants any bit.