How relevant is EV for Singapore in 2020?

[Rickster]

7 hours ago, Hons said:

who is think of buying an ev?

I did thought about buying an i3 before, but in the end i gave up because the rear bench is a 2 seater and not 3.

Also everyone around me seems to find it a horrible looking, but I quite like quirky cars like the i3.

[Rickster]

6 hours ago, Sorethum said:

I thought long and hard about buying an EV.

I stay landed, so was even prepared to install a charging point in the car porch.

But in the end the wallet won over the heart.

The cheapest two EVs were from MG and BYD....both > 120K.

Maybe one day all cars will be made in China, but as of 2020, I wasn't prepared to pay 120K for a made in China car.

Even Japanese hybrids from AD are expensive in SG.

Probably nothing bad with Korean hybrids from AD, but they weren't that cheap either.

Then I read about the Kicks E-Power - an electric motor that drives the car, and a petrol engine to recharge the battery, so no need charging point, and no range anxiety.

Somemore AD offered 10 year warranty for the battery.

Somemore launch promo price was < 100K.

So despite the Kicks being made in Thailand and interior very basic, I bought it!

 

I saw your review on the Kicks. How is the acceleration, the 0-100 is it good?

Also when it is going on highway say at 80km/hr and you want to overtake, is the pull still good?

I'm enjoying my loan car the 225XE plug in hybrid.. very addictive drive. I dread for the day to return it 😥

Edited September 15, 2020 by Rickster

[Sorethum]

1 hour ago, Lala81 said:

No, I'm expecting that overall car ownership to reduce and be more car lite for all consumers here in Sg. Urban transport will become more service oriented.

Imagine a scenario where 1/3 of the cars currently now on the road are all autonomous taxis. U would just book. Stand at your doorstep or lobby and wait for it to arrive. 

I take taxi and grab when i can't or don't want to drive. But how many phvs are on the road? Couple tens of thousands manned by humans. Imagine if coe cost 100k and govt say the alternative is to take these AI vehicles. And there is say 2-300k of these vehicles roaming around endlessly. Only stopping to charge.

Say u take 5-7 mins for your grab/CDG now to arrive. But imagine if it only took 2-3 mins in almost any part of sg to appear in front of u. 

If u stay in big countries. Sure you may well need your own car. But with autonomous driving. Your car is more likely to become a service rather than anything.

Even among my friends, many of them rather spend their time on their phone than drive the car. And these are guys btw. None of them give a shit about ev other than its cool tech. They just want autonomous driving to arrive so they can relax while going to and from work. 

80-90% pple buy cars for convenience. Not to enjoy motoring.

That's the real prize... Tesla is never going to be the world's most valuable car company simply building battery powered cars. Its the promise of full level 5 driving and selling and operating that system on a city wide level... 

EVs will be there but the car industry is going to be shrinking in metropolitan areas. Maybe covid will reverse City crowding and change suburbanisation in America. 

 

I wouldn't mind such a future at all!

If an autonomous taxi can get me to where I'm going more efficiently than the present taxi/grab/private hire system, I'd be happy to ditch my car.

But these future autonomous taxis - they should be EV too, no?

Or at least be more environmentally than ICE vehicles, which is the ultimate point right?

10 minutes ago, Rickster said:

I saw your review on the Kicks. How is the acceleration, the 0-100 is it good?

Also when it is going on highway say at 80km/hr and you want to overtake, is the pull still good?

I'm enjoying my loan car the 225XE plug in hybrid.. very addictive drive. I dread for the day to return it 😥

I haven't timed 0-100, but the reviews claim it's about 9.something seconds - nothing to be excited about!

Highway at 80 then try to overtake - no issue for me.

Still quite new to the Kicks, so these days on the highway, I'm still trying to master the Intelligent Cruise Control! 😛

[Hons]

1 hour ago, Rickster said:

I did thought about buying an i3 before, but in the end i gave up because the rear bench is a 2 seater and not 3.

Also everyone around me seems to find it a horrible looking, but I quite like quirky cars like the i3.

go test drive the kona long range. you will love it more than the 225XE 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Hons

[Voodooman]

10 hours ago, Lala81 said:

No, I'm expecting that overall car ownership to reduce and be more car lite for all consumers here in Sg. Urban transport will become more service oriented.

Imagine a scenario where 1/3 of the cars currently now on the road are all autonomous taxis. U would just book. Stand at your doorstep or lobby and wait for it to arrive. 

I take taxi and grab when i can't or don't want to drive. But how many phvs are on the road? Couple tens of thousands manned by humans. Imagine if coe cost 100k and govt say the alternative is to take these AI vehicles. And there is say 2-300k of these vehicles roaming around endlessly. Only stopping to charge.

Say u take 5-7 mins for your grab/CDG now to arrive. But imagine if it only took 2-3 mins in almost any part of sg to appear in front of u. 

If u stay in big countries. Sure you may well need your own car. But with autonomous driving. Your car is more likely to become a service rather than anything.

Even among my friends, many of them rather spend their time on their phone than drive the car. And these are guys btw. None of them give a shit about ev other than its cool tech. They just want autonomous driving to arrive so they can relax while going to and from work. 

80-90% pple buy cars for convenience. Not to enjoy motoring.

That's the real prize... Tesla is never going to be the world's most valuable car company simply building battery powered cars. Its the promise of full level 5 driving and selling and operating that system on a city wide level... 

EVs will be there but the car industry is going to be shrinking in metropolitan areas. Maybe covid will reverse City crowding and change suburbanisation in America. 

 

Yes, what you described is conceivable, people ditching their cars and using autonomous EV for transport as cost (without expensive drivers, expensive fuel, failing auto parts)  falls rapidly. The number of cars on the road may not drop that much.

And as cost falls, it could encourage non drivers to move to private public transport (autonomous taxi/ Grab), so i am not sure there will be less EV on the road.  

I think above scenario is still a while away, probably more than 5-10 years. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Voodooman

[inlinesix]

10 hours ago, Rickster said:

I saw your review on the Kicks. How is the acceleration, the 0-100 is it good?

Also when it is going on highway say at 80km/hr and you want to overtake, is the pull still good?

I'm enjoying my loan car the 225XE plug in hybrid.. very addictive drive. I dread for the day to return it 😥

PHEV is the good solution in Singapore especially in EV mode.

Now, there is Mini Electric. Nicer look than i3

[Rickster]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

PHEV is the good solution in Singapore especially in EV mode.

Now, there is Mini Electric. Nicer look than i3

My heart, mind and soul says YES!!! ...But wallet says no 😱

[Classic900]

Everyone makes their own determination about the type of car they would buy (petrol, hybrid, PHEV, EV- with petrol charger, EV), based on their needs and circumstance. Sharing my EV ownership experience. Bought Ioniq EV more than a year ago. Ok for me as I stay in a landed property, and AD installed a 7kW wall charger, also got a very good deal in terms of pricing and servicing as mine was the model just before the facelift. Takes just over 4 hours for a full charge (0%-100%). For the same mileage, cost of electricity per month is 15% of my previous petrol car's monthly petrol bill.

Only disadvantage for me is  I can't drive practically up North because even with DC fast charging will take 30 minutes for 0%-80%, and have to search for petrol stations with DC charging facility. Have to use my petrol car for that purpose. But I'm very happy with my EV for use in SG.

I would not buy an EV or PHEV in Singapore if I stay in a flat/condo because charging even though doable, will always be a concern and takes up time. That's my own feeling, but I understand some people might think it is no problem.

Attaching CO2 emissions comparing different vehicle power source

 

[Dannnn]

11 hours ago, Rickster said:

My heart, mind and soul says YES!!! ...But wallet says no 😱

Test drove the mini SE, nice . but price not nice, first yr road tax at 1.9k, 2-5th yr at 1.2k+. TBA on 5th yr onwards, wth sia.

[Joe_X123]

On 9/15/2020 at 2:59 PM, Hons said:

how many of you own an EV now? and do you stay in non-landed or landed property?

I have been driving a BEV for the last 8 months and I stay in a condo that has charging stations installed by the developer.  In my situation, very little change in my driving habit required except that I do not need to go to a petrol station anymore and I need to use my wife's older 2nd car (ICE) for any future travel up north.  Have been driving ICE car for the last 30 years. The experience in driving a BEV is far better than I had expected.

[Joe_X123]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:18 PM, ElectricYouth said:

 

that being said, not sure EVs are allowed to charge using 3 point plug in Singapore? Anyone knows?
See link
https://www.ema.gov.sg/Electric_Vehicle_Charging_Systems.aspx

the technical standards are too cheem for me.....

Charging from a standard 13A wall plug is considered a Level 1 charging. With the correct cable, yes you can charge it from a regular home UK type wall plug but the charging speed will be rather slow, typically about 2kw or max 10A only.  Any higher, you risk overheating that wall plug.

In general, Level 1 is AC (slowest) from the home wall plug.

Level 2 is also AC but can go up to 7.2 kW for single phase or higher if the car can take 3 phase AC. I am aware there is only one EV car in SG that can handle the higher power 3-phase AC and that is the Renault Zoe.

There is no Level 3 technically but people have wrongly called Level 3 charging as DC charging. DC charging, depending on car design can range from anywhere around 50kW to 200kW.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Joe_X123

[Hons]

5 minutes ago, Joe_X123 said:

Charging from a standard 13A wall plug is considered a Level 1 charging. With the correct cable, yes you can charge it from a regular home UK type wall plug but the charging speed will be rather slow, typically about 2kw or max 10A only.  Any higher, you risk overheating that wall plug.

yes, you are correct regarding the risk of overheating the 3-pin 13A plug. should anyone wish to charge, please use the 3-pin 15A plug or change to CEE 16A or 32A plug. the normal household 3-pin 13A plug (whatever the brand) is not design to take high current for prolong period of time (charging a BEV can take more than 10 hrs)

[Hons]

2 hours ago, Classic900 said:

Everyone makes their own determination about the type of car they would buy (petrol, hybrid, PHEV, EV- with petrol charger, EV), based on their needs and circumstance. Sharing my EV ownership experience. Bought Ioniq EV more than a year ago. Ok for me as I stay in a landed property, and AD installed a 7kW wall charger, also got a very good deal in terms of pricing and servicing as mine was the model just before the facelift. Takes just over 4 hours for a full charge (0%-100%). For the same mileage, cost of electricity per month is 15% of my previous petrol car's monthly petrol bill.

Only disadvantage for me is  I can't drive practically up North because even with DC fast charging will take 30 minutes for 0%-80%, and have to search for petrol stations with DC charging facility. Have to use my petrol car for that purpose. But I'm very happy with my EV for use in SG.

I would not buy an EV or PHEV in Singapore if I stay in a flat/condo because charging even though doable, will always be a concern and takes up time. That's my own feeling, but I understand some people might think it is no problem.

Attaching CO2 emissions comparing different vehicle power source

 

regarding charging while travelling up north, the only DCFCs are in Ayer keroh & KL. however, there are many 22kW AC chargers along the way. if you have an ev with range around 300km, it is possible driving around up north for (almost) free.

[Joe_X123]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:52 AM, Watwheels said:

 Sgp buys barrels and barrels of fossil fuel to burn just so to produce electricity. And it's not even 100% efficient. Combustion process is less than 50% efficient.

 

Studies in other countries have shown that even if the grid power source comes from a "dirty" source such a coal, there is still benefit in switching to EV because it is much more energy efficient than an equivalent ICE car. 

For SG, almost all of the gencos are using natural gas rather than liquid fuel to generate electricity.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Joe_X123

[Joe_X123]

13 minutes ago, Hons said:

yes, you are correct regarding the risk of overheating the 3-pin 13A plug. should anyone wish to charge, please use the 3-pin 15A plug or change to CEE 16A or 32A plug. the normal household 3-pin 13A plug (whatever the brand) is not design to take high current for prolong period of time (charging a BEV can take more than 10 hrs)

If I absolutely need to charge from a 13A home wall plug, I will set it to less than 10A. Takes longer but less risk of damaging the plug or burning out a fuse. 

[Ct3833]

15 hours ago, inlinesix said:

PHEV is the good solution in Singapore especially in EV mode.

Now, there is Mini Electric. Nicer look than i3

PHEVs may not be as clean as they are claimed by the manufacturers. 

........analysis from pressure groups Transport and Environment and Greenpeace suggest they emit an average of 120g of CO2 per km.

That compares with the 44g per km in official "lab" tests.......

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-54170207

Edited September 16, 2020 by Ct3833

[inlinesix]

7 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

PHEVs may not be as clean as they are claimed by the manufacturers. 

........analysis from pressure groups Transport and Environment and Greenpeace suggest they emit an average of 120g of CO2 per km.

That compares with the 44g per km in official "lab" tests.......

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-54170207

Ease of use is the best.  

[Yewheng]

On 9/11/2020 at 2:28 PM, Rickster said:

I recently had a PHEV - the BMW 225 XE as a temporary replacement car. 

While the 225XE is not exactly a 100% electric car, but if you keep the battery charged up, you can technically run on full electric power for about 25km. Was eager to try out how it is like to be living with an EV in Singapore and here are my observations:

1. Driving on pure electric power was weird (like driving around with your engine shut down) in the beginning. But i kinda enjoyed it after awhile, i guess.
2. Biggest challenge with the short range is...eventually, it will fall back into petrol powered mode and it takes forever to charge the battery up again until you plug-in again.
3. A domestic power point + the supplied cable is not enough, you'll need a wall box to be installed in order to safely charge the car.
4. It's a big pain to find places to charge when you're out of the house and run out battery juice. While there are quite a number of charging points, but they're often operated by different service providers (each requires u to become a member + place deposit/min fee etc. etc. to use).
5. When you eventually find it, you'll end up staring at the grass for the next 2-3 hours waiting for the car to charge up.🤣 
6. The instant torque of the electric motor + engine is super addictive a total blast when overtaking with 385 Nm of near instant torque !!! 
7. No one will be willing to wait 2-3 hours for the battery to be fully charged. Not practical for anyone who does not have a charger at home.
8. Oh ya...  this short, fat and very family looking car does 0-100 in 6.7 sec 😈 ultimate sleeper car!
9. Long term cost of maintenance is a big question mark.

In conclusion, Singapore's infra is still far from being EV friendly. The most practical way for someone who does not have a home charger to drive an EV...go the PHEV way if you want to experience electric car and yet can fall back to the petrol engine for a decent drive if u run out of juice.

 

Those staying in landed no problem.. Can always get technician to install charging port at the house. It is those stay in condo/hdb that need to share parking spaces in multistory carpark or open air carpark that has the issue of finding places to charge EV vehicles.