How problematic is VW's 7 speed DSG?

[merc280v6]

any difference in anyway between the DSGs used in VW (say Golf) and the Audi A3?

The 7-dry DSG (DQ200) found in all entry level VAG models - be it VW, Audi, SEAT, or Skoda, are all same same.

 

Avoid at all cost, for your own peace of mind.

[Fuelsaver]

If you (referring in general) can't produce facts but yet you post like it is the facts to scare that's rumor mongering and FUD. Which is worse? Those who started the rumor/FUD or those who try to dispel them with plausible conjectures?

 

If on certain other topics those who started these rumors / FUDs would have the authority stomping on their throats.

 

What if some said -"Honda and Toyota are the most dangerous brands which can kill you due to killer airbags and stuck accelerator. You buy you die". . What would you do?

Fair enuf. We can choose to ignore becos it is oredi fact that some % of owners did encounter issues (also % of u w/o issues). What ppl r indignant about is u kept defending as if u r 100% sure issues r resolved as stated by vw, wc left many unconvinced.

 

So far did anyone rebut u about airbag issue when u repeatedly broughy up when ppl discussed negatively about dsg? - Not even in my / many others replies.

 

U may even post what u think about the airbag issue. I'm sure there unlikely to be any defensive response.

 

Anyway, tks for reminding. I'm tryin best to avoid these brands, though i havent read of any negative response about airbag issues here.

[Fels]

I cannot believe my eyes when I received notifications of replies to this thread. Came in and saw the length of personal agenda being pushed into the face of the other side.

 

Myths:

1. Many of the MCFers know what they are talking.

2. This thread is productive in generating knowledge towards the automotive industry.

 

Fact:

1. We know something is brewing with the DSG7 dry (DQ200) mechatronics

2. We don't have the field failure PPM from VW to know if the failure is declining.

3. Mass communication is to tell you what they want you to believe sometimes it does not reflect the truth. Good luck if you buy that without questioning. It is the same everywhere. With VW, with politics, with public transport, with mobile phones, with restaurant and airline service etc etc etc...

4. We don't have the 8D or ECN supplied by Getrag or LuK to know the analysis and what had been done.

5. We haven't seen the changes in the PPAP or VDA2 supplied to VW. For goodness sake, we don't even know which level did they require the external provider to submit. so we won't know the requirements of product realization. No test reports to prove conformity, no drawings, no engineering specs, no tolerance standards, no product verification and validation standards, no B.O.M., no external provider list, no process and machine capability etc etc for us to scrutinise.

6. VW Formel Q requires external suppliers to produce a VDA6.3 process audit report. We don't even know their score, which processes were audited, never seen their process flow, control plan, P-FMEA, D-FMEA of the gearbox. They might use the VDA6.1 or the ISO/TS16949 or the new IATF16949 to audit the system of the external provider and themselves and we don't even know how many major and minor or OFI are there in their system. No VDA6.5 product audit to verify too. Heck... there are so many info we will require that is not revealed and here we are having people arguing over it with their limited knowledge of the whole case?

7. We know the consequences of the looming gearbox failure is getting stranded at some random location.

8. We know that different people perceives risks differently. So they have different threshold of acceptance to the idea of 'being stranded'. Since that is the case, let each one decide if the risk is worthwhile to take.

9. No car builder has no scandal. Some scandals make it out, some don't. I have seen and heard and dealt with some of the most ridiculous scandals in my work with some of the vehicle builders you cannot imagine. No one is immune to shit. Whatever happens in Toyota can happen to BMW, Bosch, Mercedes Benz, Hella, Mazda, Hitachi, Bugatti, Denso, Lotus, MDC POWER, VAG, BREMBO, trw,  etc etc...

10. And the forum is just another platform of melting pot. Sometimes you get good info, sometimes you get scheiße. VAGSG or MCF are the same. You don't know who's telling reliable good facts, who's getting emotional shooting off for the sake of his useless ego.

 

Come on guys...

It is Christmas! The season to give and be merry! Log off and calm down, then go and clear your work and prepare for the long weekend!

 

[Fuelsaver]

any difference in anyway between the DSGs used in VW (say Golf) and the Audi A3?

Iirc it's same 7dsg. Just diff product name. Audi calls it s-tronic.

[Toeknee_33]

"Volkswagen’s seven-speed dry dual-clutch gearbox hasn’t had the best of times in terms of reliability, and the automaker has acknowledged the matter by updating the DQ200 transmission with a redesigned, more robust mechatronic unit, along with a new clutch lining material and software to resolve the transmission’s juddering symptoms, particularly on part-throttle loads at low speeds. Volkswagen also claims a reduction in DSG mechatronic failure by 90% since the switch to mineral oil for the unit"

 

Quoted from: http://paultan.org/2016/12/21/driven-2016-volkswagen-jetta-1-4-tsi-highline-familiarity-is-always-a-good-thing/

 

So is DSG reliability improved in newer cars as claimed?

 

 

[Detach8]

It's OK folks. Just drive your car and be happy. I'm driving a manual transmission daily now... it's called 6 DSG. the 6 speed detach8 shifting gearbox.

 

The other day I had a stomach ache. That caused a mechatronic issue.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Detach8

[Heartlander]

Both side need to take a step back and stop pushing your opinion. I mean, after 5 long years, who is not aware of the issues. And anyone who claim that it is fully resolved is certainly not to be taken seriously, as it would meant that the VW rides gearbox are now able to last and not breakdown every 2 years or so.

 

But i would like to see it from another angle, back by facts from LTA. Despite the dreadful onslaught of bad publicity and fear mongering, VW still manage to sell btw 200 and 300 cars every month this year. And logically, if the Dry DSG issue is still so bad, or bad enough, we would be expexting tides of complaints from these new owners. But did we see anyone else beside those usual "fear mongerers" posting instances of failures? Few maybe, but certainly not the majority of them. I would think that those new owners are not stupxx people or not social-media savvy enough. I do not need to gleam through thick QA reports to reach this simple conclusion.

 

I would think it is up to potential buyers to decide if they want to take the risks of MU breakdown in random location. It is their money after all. I do not think there are worse news on DSG that we are not already aware of. And we should try not to add salt and pepper to put down VW rides especially if they are not first-hand experiences. As i had said, there is nothing in facts on DSG that we are not already aware of. No point regurgitating the same materials to make us nauseous. Peace.

[Ivan_06]

Before anyone starts discounting my credibility, I deal with parts of the VW formel Q and the outgoing ISOTS16949 converting to the IATF16949. There is a lot of information not released to the public. The strategic sourcing of the components from the vw supply chain suggests the risks involving the DSG7's (dry) reliability. We don't have the actual PPM for the external provider of the transmission and clutch system so unable to know if the failures have been declining. So while some people kept insisting there's nothing wrong with it or it has already recovered from the problem is clearly having difficulties seeing the elephant in the room.

 

The fact is: There is known issues to the mechatronics for the DSG7 (dry). The breakdown rate is high enough to cause worry and we see mass gathering to protest. The failure is unpredictable and can be very spontaneous. There is no known method of prevention. Everyone on a DSG7 (dry) is at greater risk to have their vehicles breakdown. This is a fact we cannot deny no matter how we sugar coat the words to consumers. Contrary to those insisting this is fear mongering, they seem to be having difficulties coming to terms with the facts that have already taken place.

 

There are too many unanswered questions and you cannot expect consumers to offer blind faith. If you want to prove the problem is resolved, then release the field failure PPM since the failure took place, the 8D involved in the rectification of the problem, the ECN submitted by the external provider, the VDA6.1 audit report on the system of the involved external provider, 6.3 of the involved process that went wrong, 6.5 for the products audit reports... Release the involved PPAP (at level 3) to prove conformity otherwise, anything else is No Action Talk Only.

 

Therefore, the best solution is to shun the DSG7 dry (for DQ200). and if you have to go for the VW, go for the DSG6 (DQ250 Borg Warner) wet, or DSG7 (wet) DQ500

 

Merry Christmas! Many of my friends on the DQ200 have a tow truck number in handy in both Singapore and Malaysia. I suggest those on it without the number to stand by one. You need it more than the rest. We certainly don't want to be stranded during the festivities. Good day gentlemen, have a nice day arguing over the obvious.

That's why. I prefer the dinosaur proven 6 speed manual transmission for my kimchi budget ride.

[Dungbag]

My wife drives an Audi 2014 A3 sedan 1.4L, and we've clocked over 50,000kms on it. 

No issues with gearbox till date.

Maybe they indeed fixed up the mineral oil thing.

when I bought the car salesman told me the gearbox issues were fixed back in 2013, newer cars shouldnt have gearbox failure..

Maybe Audi cars arent made in the same factory as their lower class brethren, VW, hence the different build quality.

well, I am not an expert and I certainly have not owned a bw

[Lycanthrope]

aiyo ..argue till face green green   ... hmmm ..whats there to argue ...seriously  ..take a chill pill and enjoy your ride ...  .. 

[LerLim]

My wife drives an Audi 2014 A3 sedan 1.4L, and we've clocked over 50,000kms on it.

No issues with gearbox till date.

Maybe they indeed fixed up the mineral oil thing.

when I bought the car salesman told me the gearbox issues were fixed back in 2013, newer cars shouldnt have gearbox failure..

Maybe Audi cars arent made in the same factory as their lower class brethren, VW, hence the different build quality.

well, I am not an expert and I certainly have not owned a bw

It's random.. my buddy has a 2014 A3 too.. gearbox issue happened a few times.. cannot engage gear and the other time was gear doesn't shift up..

[Fels]

That's why. I prefer the dinosaur proven 6 speed manual transmission for my kimchi budget ride.

 

Agreed! I like the manual + 3 pedal Getrag 6 speed for transverse engine FWD and ZF 6 speed for longitudinal engine RWD too.

Fun and reliable. Never having to worry if I will be stranded. Imagine getting stranded on top of the European hilly region with a DSG7 dry failure in February and dusk is approaching. Not fun. I always make sure that I get a stick shift manual if I have long distance drive to cover and flights to catch whenever I am overseas. good for fun and cheaper, less comfort but more reliability and better to keep myself awake. And you get to push start if your battery is flat too! haha!

[zerobim08]

Fair enuf. We can choose to ignore becos it is oredi fact that some % of owners did encounter issues (also % of u w/o issues). What ppl r indignant about is u kept defending as if u r 100% sure issues r resolved as stated by vw, wc left many unconvinced.

 

So far did anyone rebut u about airbag issue when u repeatedly broughy up when ppl discussed negatively about dsg? - Not even in my / many others replies.

 

U may even post what u think about the airbag issue. I'm sure there unlikely to be any defensive response.

 

Anyway, tks for reminding. I'm tryin best to avoid these brands, though i havent read of any negative response about airbag issues here.

Why don't you try posting in vezel thread and say to the owners that their new vezel still have killer airbags as the issue has not been resolved (airbag incident still happening a few months ago) and see what kind if response you gonna get.

 

Do the same in altis thread and tell them the uncontrolled acceleration has not been resolved. And Toyota cannot be trusted as they tried to hide the issue.

Edited December 22, 2016 by zerobim08

[Ivan_06]

aiyo ..argue till face green green ... hmmm ..whats there to argue ...seriously ..take a chill pill and enjoy your ride ... ..

No need to argue lah. For me, very simple. People want $$$ want to buy, want to take risks... Okay lah, cos fave value of car is important..

 

For me, reliability of car is more important.

 

To me simple, vg cars are not reliable especially its infamous gearboxes..

Why don't you try posting in vezel thread and say to the owners that their new vezel still have killer airbags as the issue has not been resolved (airbag incident still happening a few months ago) and see what kind if response you gonna get.

 

Do the same in altis thread and tell them the uncontrolled acceleration has not been resolved. And Toyota cannot be trusted as they tried to hide the issue.

Cos simple lah, cos when the vg gearbox spoils , the car won't even move. Aka hefty repairs... Edited December 22, 2016 by Ivan_06

[Theoldjaffa]

This thread has really turned personalð

Because we have fervent supporters of DSG who treat it like their religion.

 

They don't like people criticizing the gearbox, because they see it as a criticism against a choice they made, and they take it personal. and I say congrats to VAG for having such fans around to help even when they are not paid for any of the PR.

 

All I can say is, if I say that the DSG failed based on real encounters, I am seen as spreading FUD.

 

Sharing info is not the order of the day here or in any VAG related thread.

 

So Y'all "naysayers" better stfu and just say the good things okay. :P

I cannot believe my eyes when I received notifications of replies to this thread. Came in and saw the length of personal agenda being pushed into the face of the other side.

 

Myths:

1. Many of the MCFers know what they are talking.

2. This thread is productive in generating knowledge towards the automotive industry.

 

Fact:

1. We know something is brewing with the DSG7 dry (DQ200) mechatronics

2. We don't have the field failure PPM from VW to know if the failure is declining.

3. Mass communication is to tell you what they want you to believe sometimes it does not reflect the truth. Good luck if you buy that without questioning. It is the same everywhere. With VW, with politics, with public transport, with mobile phones, with restaurant and airline service etc etc etc...

4. We don't have the 8D or ECN supplied by Getrag or LuK to know the analysis and what had been done.

5. We haven't seen the changes in the PPAP or VDA2 supplied to VW. For goodness sake, we don't even know which level did they require the external provider to submit. so we won't know the requirements of product realization. No test reports to prove conformity, no drawings, no engineering specs, no tolerance standards, no product verification and validation standards, no B.O.M., no external provider list, no process and machine capability etc etc for us to scrutinise.

6. VW Formel Q requires external suppliers to produce a VDA6.3 process audit report. We don't even know their score, which processes were audited, never seen their process flow, control plan, P-FMEA, D-FMEA of the gearbox. They might use the VDA6.1 or the ISO/TS16949 or the new IATF16949 to audit the system of the external provider and themselves and we don't even know how many major and minor or OFI are there in their system. No VDA6.5 product audit to verify too. Heck... there are so many info we will require that is not revealed and here we are having people arguing over it with their limited knowledge of the whole case?

7. We know the consequences of the looming gearbox failure is getting stranded at some random location.

8. We know that different people perceives risks differently. So they have different threshold of acceptance to the idea of 'being stranded'. Since that is the case, let each one decide if the risk is worthwhile to take.

9. No car builder has no scandal. Some scandals make it out, some don't. I have seen and heard and dealt with some of the most ridiculous scandals in my work with some of the vehicle builders you cannot imagine. No one is immune to shit. Whatever happens in Toyota can happen to BMW, Bosch, Mercedes Benz, Hella, Mazda, Hitachi, Bugatti, Denso, Lotus, MDC POWER, VAG, BREMBO, trw, etc etc...

10. And the forum is just another platform of melting pot. Sometimes you get good info, sometimes you get scheiÃe. VAGSG or MCF are the same. You don't know who's telling reliable good facts, who's getting emotional shooting off for the sake of his useless ego.

 

Come on guys...

It is Christmas! The season to give and be merry! Log off and calm down, then go and clear your work and prepare for the long weekend!

Can't praise u again. Give you 500 points here. Edited December 22, 2016 by Theoldjaffa

[Heartlander]

Because we have fervent supporters of DSG who treat it like their religion.

 

They don't like people criticizing the choice they made, and I say congrats to VAG for having such fans around to help even when they are not paid for any of the PR.

 

All I can say is, if I say that the DSG failed based on real encounters, I am seen as spreading FUD.

 

Sharing info is not the order of the day here or in any VAG related thread.

 

Y'all better stfu and just say the good things okay. :P

Can't praise u again. Give you 500 points here.

It is your kind of attitude that have provoked these diehard fans into action, sad to say. Tell me, what have we not known about DSG issues over this course of 5 long years that people need to bring it up again and again? To rub salt? to tear wound? to remind people of their pain, that you cannot stand people having some fun with their life when they own a ride with dry DSG? That they must be sobbing and regretting everyday of their life till the day the source of the suffering is gone? This is called WICKEDNESS, and certainly not welcomed here or anywhere.

 

Guys, before you want to post anything, if you have nothing better to add, something breakthrough or new knowledge, please exercise restraint and just whisper them to yourselves. Pat yourself on your shoulders that you have been wise and never succumb to the pull of the monster. Lets not come here trying to pick a fight over nothing. Lets be bigger-hearted than this. If not, this thread will be locked up pretty soon. Cheers.

[Theoldjaffa]

It is your kind of attitude that have provoked these diehard fans into action, sad to say. Tell me, what have we not known about DSG issues over this course of 5 long years that people need to bring it up again and again? To rub salt? to tear wound? to remind people of their pain, that you cannot stand people having some fun with their life when they own a ride with dry DSG? That they must be sobbing and regretting everyday of their life till the day the source of the suffering is gone? This is called WICKEDNESS, and certainly not welcomed here or anywhere.

 

Guys, before you want to post anything, if you have nothing better to add, something breakthrough or new knowledge, please exercise restraint and just whisper them to yourselves. Pat yourself on your shoulders that you have been wise and never succumb to the pull of the monster. Lets not come here trying to pick a fight over nothing. Lets be bigger-hearted than this. If not, this thread will be locked up pretty soon. Cheers.

Aiya, I don't feel anyone means to rub salt into anyone's wounds. If they feel wounded by those words, it can't be helped.

 

Just wanna say it again, highlighting real issues, or real experiences, doesn't mean it's spreading FUD.

 

We are dealing with real issues and eexperiences with the 7 speed dry clutch. I believe many come in good faith to describe what they encountered, so that potential buyers can make their own choice. And yet they are being labelled as fear mongerers, blanketed by comments that's something like "i don't have any issues with my gearbox at xx km, so it's problem free and you are spreading FUD"

 

My previous post was just being sarcastic to those overdefensive folks.

[Beregond]

Aiya, I don't feel anyone means to rub salt into anyone's wounds. If they feel wounded by those words, it can't be helped.

 

Just wanna say it again, highlighting real issues, or real experiences, doesn't mean it's spreading FUD.

 

We are dealing with real issues and eexperiences with the 7 speed dry clutch. I believe many come in good faith to describe what they encountered, so that potential buyers can make their own choice. And yet they are being labelled as fear mongerers, blanketed by comments that's something like "i don't have any issues with my gearbox at xx km, so it's problem free and you are spreading FUD"

 

My previous post was just being sarcastic to those overdefensive folks.

real gold not afraid of fire burn.

 

dun need any defender,

if really got nothing wrong, the thread will die by itself.