[Lightbringer]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

 

That's a good one. Weight the costs of providing regular wage increases and proper welfare against the costs of potential industrial action. A win-win situation that preserves our humanity can be eked out that way.

 

In all of history, every form of slavery and indentured labour has never ended well for both parties. Yet it seems, we human beings never learn.

[Manmaster]

Interesting analysis, but a few points:

 

1) Inflation is a function of price changes and nominal (dollar) wage changes. When price changes outpace nominal (dollar) wage changes, inflation occurs. When wage changes outpace price changes, deflation occurs. These 3 are inter-linked and cannot be detached independently from each other. So while worries about inflation increasingly persistently might have influenced increases in nominal (dollar) wages, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. In a controlled economy like China, this can be entirely attributed to policy direction as you've correctly pointed out. But to say inflation causes higher nominal wages; not strictly accurate, as higher nominal wages do not necessarily follows an increase in inflation. Depending on monetary policy, an inflationary spiral whereby inflation and nominal wages continue increasing in tandem at an accelerating rate, and real wages (purchasing power) stagnates or decreases.

 

2) Shale gas has seen the price of NG in USA drop drastically. NG in Europe is now roughly 4x that of Henry Hub Prices and in Asia (where long-term GSAs dominates), roughly 8x more. Therefore it is interesting to note that together with increasing automation and improvements in technology, USA actually is starting to exhibit significant comparative advantage in manufacturing and industrial activities in the global marketplace, and might actually become the manufacturing hub of the world in the near future.

 

3) You're a very patient man. Kudos to you.

 

I know my economics. I studied it....demand & supply, j-curve all the way to international economics. Your definition of deflation is weird. wage changes outpace price changes? don't tell me only wages affect inflation or deflation? Anyway, i'm not here to debate on economic.

 

What i'm trying to put across is company specific issues must not be escalated into national issues like strikes. There's bad employers everywhere but that is definitely not a reason for strike. This vincent is trying to incite, imply or encourage strikes. He just wanted to bring down the ruling party at the expense of SG. I will vote for WP or other party but not SDP. Thank god SDP is not in my constituency. If i've to vote between PAP & SDP, the answer is obvious for me.

 

 

[Joseph22]

Just look at Apple, Apple is shifting 1 production line back to US. Why? There are 2 main reasons for this move. Minimum wage in China & strikes at foxconn. Foxconn will lose 1 production line in china and is also planning to set up more production lines in US. This will definitely cause more job losses in china as foxconn will hire less china workers. When investors start to view SG as an unstable economy, businesses will start to shift out. Is that what you want for SG?

its more due to USA people are buying more and more make in US products and not due to china Strike.

[Lightbringer]

I don't debate with trolls or IB's members.

 

I know what you're doing though; persistently replying to messages that I've posted to other members in the hope of derailing the discussion that is going on and bringing it down to your level of scum.

 

Nice try, but it ain't gonna happen with me. Now go play with yourself in a corner

[Acemundo]

What i'm trying to put across is company specific issues must not be escalated into national issues like strikes. There's bad employers everywhere but that is definitely not a reason for strike.

 

you think these lowly educated driver have sufficient vision and control to keep it at company level and not escalate to national level?

 

and then so any workers in essential public service like transport (despite being owned by corporates) are barred from any form of protest because theirs will always be construed as national level type of protests?

[Sabian]

its more due to USA people are buying more and more make in US products and not due to china Strike.

[laugh]

[Joseph22]

[laugh]

actually i didnt realise CKP reply. i no time today to type long post...

his reply is better. but basically, a lot of company in USA are moving towards selling their own country made product and more and more american are looking at buying MIA item liao. Even their largest Mart (forgot what mart liao) are increasing their MIA product while reducing MIC products.

[Acemundo]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

i have got a first hand experience to share why my company pulled out/closed down our Suzhou manufacturing plant facility.

 

simple reason costs have risen too high in China while quality of labour/facilities has not kept pace.

 

when we closed down though, the experience of dealign with the china workers is admittedly not pleasant. but heck, it wasn't this reason that prompted us to close down. if this was the consideration, we would rather continue operating because we do not have to deal with unruly workers.

[Manmaster]

The above is classic example of citing irrelevant examples to support your argument.

 

 

A There are many reasons for some manufacturing shifting back to the US:

 

1. US Manufactures found they lost control of the foundation of the manufacturing process.

They found out there are many hidden costs to this setup

 

In any business, it's always dollars & cents. wage is part of the cost. business disruption cost is also part of your business ops cost. When your business is disrupted like the case of apple, u will think of alternatives to minimize that business disruption cost.

 

2. US manufacturers have also made strides through

[Joseph22]

i have got a first hand experience to share why my company pulled out/closed down our Suzhou manufacturing plant facility.

 

simple reason costs have risen too high in China while quality of labour/facilities has not kept pace.

 

when we closed down though, the experience of dealign with the china workers is admittedly not pleasant. but heck, it wasn't this reason that prompted us to close down. if this was the consideration, we would rather continue operating because we do not have to deal with unruly workers.

Last year when i was in China for holiday. i was chating with the guide. many here will be surprise that the salary of those working in the major city of china arent exactly lowly pay as what some people here thing.

 

Also, a lot of people are thinking, 1K here is equal to their 5K there and say its mean they are getting 5 times more. but they didnt realise, what we sell here are sold around the same price over there. a Ipad selling at 1K in singapore is selling at 5 RMB in china.

 

with this in mind and China been a emerging market, if their pay is really that low, why is every technological giant trying to get a foothold in china?

[Cerano]

Well I spent some time reading through the entire thread and saw some personal attacks, some mindless bashing and general disagreement.

 

I think we should all take a step back and look at this issue without resorting to such.

 

As for my opinion, im typically not quite a supporter of the right wing stand but in this case, I believe national stability is paramount. We dont need strikes or protests here and as shown by the crane case, if we go down the slippery slope of condoning these, they will just get more and more daring.

 

 

[Joseph22]

seriously, Manmaster. learn how to reply in a forum.

 

totally dont know which one is your reply.

[Cerano]

I do not usually agree with the incumbent party but what I do agree is that Singapore is a land of few natural resources. There is little drawing FDI here if not our stability, security and skilled labour.

 

We cannot afford to disrupt our rice bowl if even at the cost of others. Also, as many people here have said, the entire point of them being hired is because they are cheap to hire. If they get the same pay, then heck we may as well hire others.

 

Rights are admirable but when push to shove I'm all for utilitarianism. I suspect you wouldnt bother so much about rights when you're feeling hungry

Edited December 7, 2012 by Cerano

[Joseph22]

I do not usually agree with the incumbent party but what I do agree is that Singapore is a land of few natural resources. There is little drawing FDI here if not our stability, security and skilled labour.

 

We cannot afford to disrupt our rice bowl if even at the cost of others. Also, as many people here have said, the entire point of them being hired is because they are cheap to hire. If they get the same pay, then heck we may as well hire others.

Bro, you read throught the whole thread or not??

 

we are not at the issue on whether they should strike or not strike.

 

we are at the issue of how should SMRT had done better.

 

end of the day, this strike is ulitimately a result of SMRT incompetent Management.

[Acemundo]

Last year when i was in China for holiday. i was chating with the guide. many here will be surprise that the salary of those working in the major city of china arent exactly lowly pay as what some people here thing.

 

Also, a lot of people are thinking, 1K here is equal to their 5K there and say its mean they are getting 5 times more. but they didnt realise, what we sell here are sold around the same price over there. a Ipad selling at 1K in singapore is selling at 5 RMB in china.

 

with this in mind and China been a emerging market, if their pay is really that low, why is every technological giant trying to get a foothold in china?

 

yes, exactly. i go Shanghai every year and i know the cost there.

 

most of the Chinese cities have become very expensive unless we are talking about the more undeveloped ones. but the problem with such undeveloped chiense cities is that they may not have the infrastucture and the sophisticated skilled labour that investors are looking for.

[Cerano]

Bro, you read throught the whole thread or not??

 

we are not at the issue on whether they should strike or not strike.

 

we are at the issue of how should SMRT had done better.

 

end of the day, this strike is ulitimately a result of SMRT incompetent Management.

 

Yes I read through the entire 17 pages.

 

I think ultimately SMRT is merely caught as a victim of its own success.

 

Questionable middle-management, profit-maximising "at any cost" aim amongst other issues.

 

However, I think not all the blame can be attributed to them at the end of the day and the government took action the right way.

[Galantspeedz]

Last year when i was in China for holiday. i was chating with the guide. many here will be surprise that the salary of those working in the major city of china arent exactly lowly pay as what some people here thing.

 

Also, a lot of people are thinking, 1K here is equal to their 5K there and say its mean they are getting 5 times more. but they didnt realise, what we sell here are sold around the same price over there. a Ipad selling at 1K in singapore is selling at 5 RMB in china.

 

with this in mind and China been a emerging market, if their pay is really that low, why is every technological giant trying to get a foothold in china?

 

because for every 1 that can afford a ipad 9,999 cannot afford... however the market is still bigger than singapore.....

 

depending what you mean by low pay.... average should be around 3k to 5k rmb for office workers in major cities... $600-$1k a month.. low or high pay you decide....

 

 

 

 

[Galantspeedz]

Yes I read through the entire 17 pages.

 

I think ultimately SMRT is merely caught as a victim of its own success.

 

Questionable middle-management, profit-maximising "at any cost" aim amongst other issues.

 

However, I think not all the blame can be attributed to them at the end of the day and the government took action the right way.

 

i agree... partly because of profit maximising... mrt stations is now surrounded by stalls... now like last time so dead and waste of space