[Ronleech]

TS should understand Anti-PAP and non-supoortive of PAP is two different things. Since he cant even get this fact right, no point reading his long post....

[Damienic]

Oh great! Just heard the news....Minister Lui just said that our transport costs would be going up and the bus drivers' salary increment would be factored into the fare hike....Thanks to those strike supporters!

 

For now, whenever there is any dispute between the company and foreign workers, the foreign workers will strike first before considering other alternatives. I guess that's what the strike supporters want.

 

you believed the reasons?

 

its just a convenient and lame excuse to increase fares. smrt is so profitable that a mere increase like this won't hurt their pockets. they can even afford to pay its CEO a staggering 1.85mil a year. you think the hike is justified?? public tpt is for the people. maximising profits to the best they can shouldn't be the agenda. its actually people who support a dominant one party pap rule that is causing all these nonsense.

[Damienic]

Then how do you propose that those who are exploited gets heard? Are we not asking for trouble running our place in a manner where the less articulated gets exploited?

 

I see you are quoting countries like Greece and Spain on strikes... How about Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan and Germany. They have strikes and they are economic superpowers. For Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan, they too lack natural resources and 2 are under the threat of war all the time.

 

Precisely. Spain is conveniently used an example. he forgot that Spain economy is already in decline with strike or no strike. Strikes have nothing to do with a country's economic. Its mind boggling how some brainwashed people think it is. My goodness..

[Tonyhawk]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tp/

 

64% on channel news asia's talking point live poll supported the strike, flies in the face of print-reported news.

 

trouble has been brewing for a while now, perhaps at some point, it will boil over.

[Darryn]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tp/

 

64% on channel news asia's talking point live poll supported the strike, flies in the face of print-reported news.

 

trouble has been brewing for a while now, perhaps at some point, it will boil over.

 

Hee...

I saw this posted on facebook yesterday.

 

Besides Yes Prime Minister being really funny,

 

It seems pretty apt to repost it here now

 

 

[Felipe]

Precisely. Spain is conveniently used an example. he forgot that Spain economy is already in decline with strike or no strike. Strikes have nothing to do with a country's economic. Its mind boggling how some brainwashed people think it is. My goodness..

 

Singapore is not really a democracy so strikes are illegal. Btw, read in papers got new China strike again.

[Jtay]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tp/

 

64% on channel news asia's talking point live poll supported the strike, flies in the face of print-reported news.

 

trouble has been brewing for a while now, perhaps at some point, it will boil over.

 

i can understand why many support the strike this time around. But i would venture a guess to say that people support it only because their daily lives are not being affected now. If the strike had caused the public transport system to come to a stand still, will people still support? if the strike happened in the healthcare sector, will people still support? If the strike happened in the waste sector, and no one clears all your trash everywhere, will people still support?

 

Yes, the drivers have their reasons for the strike. But 2 wrongs do not make a right.

[Manmaster]

Then how do you propose that those who are exploited gets heard? Are we not asking for trouble running our place in a manner where the less articulated gets exploited?

 

I see you are quoting countries like Greece and Spain on strikes... How about Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan and Germany. They have strikes and they are economic superpowers. For Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan, they too lack natural resources and 2 are under the threat of war all the time.

 

Who got exploited?

 

It was wrong for SMRT to unilaterally increase the china driver's pay. This would be breach of contract for contractual workers as the pay was already stated in the contract and nobody should revise the pay.

 

It was wrong for SMRT to unilaterally change the working days from 5 to 6 day. Another breach of contract.

 

Actually, SMRT would have done better by giving better communication but someone at the top thought that the pay increment would be a trade off for the change in working days and there was no need for any discussion with the drivers.

 

The author of the article omitted some vital info. He could describe the sentiment and atmosphere that transpired during the dialogue session as if he was there but he failed to state that the china drivers were just contractual workers which was an important factor in the analysis. Why did he leave that out? I don't know.

 

Another factor which the author didn't state clearly was the changing of the working days from 5 to 6. Was this change specifically targeted at the contractual drivers or was the change applied across the board to other drivers as well?

 

Strikes would definitely affect business sentiment in SG if nothing was done to curb it. By encouraging strikes would destroy SG. Do you know that richer european nations didn't dare to tour Greece as they were afraid of being stranded in Greece or being mobbed. We should not encourage things that are detrimental to SG's survival and strike is one of them.

 

Just look at Apple, Apple is shifting 1 production line back to US. Why? There are 2 main reasons for this move. Minimum wage in China & strikes at foxconn. Foxconn will lose 1 production line in china and is also planning to set up more production lines in US. This will definitely cause more job losses in china as foxconn will hire less china workers. When investors start to view SG as an unstable economy, businesses will start to shift out. Is that what you want for SG?

Edited December 7, 2012 by Manmaster

[Vextan]

i can understand why many support the strike this time around. But i would venture a guess to say that people support it only because their daily lives are not being affected now. If the strike had caused the public transport system to come to a stand still, will people still support? if the strike happened in the healthcare sector, will people still support? If the strike happened in the waste sector, and no one clears all your trash everywhere, will people still support?

 

Yes, the drivers have their reasons for the strike. But 2 wrongs do not make a right.

good point. Like.

[Lightbringer]

you believed the reasons?

 

its just a convenient and lame excuse to increase fares. smrt is so profitable that a mere increase like this won't hurt their pockets. they can even afford to pay its CEO a staggering 1.85mil a year. you think the hike is justified?? public tpt is for the people. maximising profits to the best they can shouldn't be the agenda. its actually people who support a dominant one party pap rule that is causing all these nonsense.

 

Pal, is it still not clear that Manmaster is a member of the official PAP Internet Brigade? I don't make such claims lightly but a cursory scan of his posting history, plus his continued toeing of the party lie and repeating of trite, oft-repeated arguments by party members should make it pretty clear and apparent what his intentions here are all about.

[Manmaster]

Pal, is it still not clear that Manmaster is a member of the official PAP Internet Brigade? I don't make such claims lightly but a cursory scan of his posting history, plus his continued toeing of the party lie and repeating of trite, oft-repeated arguments by party members should make it pretty clear and apparent what his intentions here are all about.

 

cos i'm still standing on the same ground....no shift in my arguments. FYI, i didn't vote for the ruling party. I do what's best for SG, not what's best for the ruling govt. Encouraging strike is not in the interest of SG, that's why I'm dead against it. I don't care the strike is against SMRT or SGH. As long as it's a strike against essential public services or other businesses, i'll be against it. We must not create a bad business sentiment in SG where businessmen will think of shifting out of SG. This will affect our survival. When companies start to shift out, we're finished.

[Lightbringer]

I would like to say that the quality of MODERATION here is a joke. Biased, in-transparent and completely arbitrary; subject to the whims of a few, with no proper framework in place, or explanations given.

 

Warnings and yellow cards given for "being rude to others" and "multiple complaints"? I seriously LOL-ed at the juvenile and unprofessional quality of the moderation in place here.

 

Kratoschumaucer, you're a joke and without the moral courage to make proper judgement calls in the face of popular pressure. Furthermore, you do not have the integrity to clarify your stance, nor do you have the capacity or courage to properly explain the judgement calls you've made. You're merely a tool and blunt one at that, and a worm of an individual. How's that for being rude eh?

 

Also, the intellectual quality of many folks, not to mention character-wise, is another joke. Like another forummer succinctly pointed out, most people here lack the capacity or capability do undertake any serious thinking or reading of any sort. Instead they just go off on mindless rants and repeat the clich

Edited December 7, 2012 by Lightbringer

[CKP]

Just look at Apple, Apple is shifting 1 production line back to US. Why? There are 2 main reasons for this move. Minimum wage in China & strikes at foxconn. Foxconn will lose 1 production line in china and is also planning to set up more production lines in US. This will definitely cause more job losses in china as foxconn will hire less china workers. When investors start to view SG as an unstable economy, businesses will start to shift out. Is that what you want for SG?

 

 

The above is classic example of citing irrelevant examples to support your argument.

 

 

A There are many reasons for some manufacturing shifting back to the US:

 

1. US Manufactures found they lost control of the foundation of the manufacturing process.

They found out there are many hidden costs to this setup

 

2. US manufacturers have also made strides through

Edited December 7, 2012 by CKP

[Lightbringer]

Interesting analysis, but a few points:

 

1) Inflation is a function of price changes and nominal (dollar) wage changes. When price changes outpace nominal (dollar) wage changes, inflation occurs. When wage changes outpace price changes, deflation occurs. These 3 are inter-linked and cannot be detached independently from each other. So while worries about inflation increasingly persistently might have influenced increases in nominal (dollar) wages, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. In a controlled economy like China, this can be entirely attributed to policy direction as you've correctly pointed out. But to say inflation causes higher nominal wages; not strictly accurate, as higher nominal wages do not necessarily follows an increase in inflation. Depending on monetary policy, an inflationary spiral whereby inflation and nominal wages continue increasing in tandem at an accelerating rate, and real wages (purchasing power) stagnates or decreases.

 

2) Shale gas has seen the price of NG in USA drop drastically. NG in Europe is now roughly 4x that of Henry Hub Prices and in Asia (where long-term GSAs dominates), roughly 8x more. Therefore it is interesting to note that together with increasing automation and improvements in technology, USA actually is starting to exhibit significant comparative advantage in manufacturing and industrial activities in the global marketplace, and might actually become the manufacturing hub of the world in the near future.

 

3) You're a very patient man. Kudos to you.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Lightbringer

[Darryn]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

 

[Manmaster]

I would like to say that the quality of MODERATION here is a joke. Biased, in-transparent and completely arbitrary; subject to the whims of a few, with no proper framework in place, or explanations given.

 

Warnings and yellow cards given for "being rude to others" and "multiple complaints"? I seriously LOL-ed at the juvenile and unprofessional quality of the moderation in place here.

 

Kratoschumaucer, you're a joke and without the moral courage to make proper judgement calls in the face of popular pressure. Furthermore, you do not have the integrity to clarify your stance, nor do you have the capacity or courage to properly explain the judgement calls you've made. You're merely a tool and blunt one at that, and a worm of an individual. How's that for being rude eh?

 

Also, the intellectual quality of many folks, not to mention character-wise, is another joke. Like another forummer succinctly pointed out, most people here lack the capacity or capability do undertake any serious thinking or reading of any sort. Instead they just go off on mindless rants and repeat the clich

[Acemundo]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

 

 

"facebook like"

[Darryn]

Labour conflicts are common phenomena and they happened for all sorts of reasons but they must not be escalated into strikes. Which country doesn't have labour conflicts? If u know a company is a bad employer, don't work there. If u choose to work there, don't create strike which is bad for SG. A worker can't impose his own belief on a company by going on strike as strike is a national issue, not company specific anymore.

 

Bus drivers' strike is a matter as it's a national issue, not company specific anymore. We can't tell SMRT how to run its businesses as we're outsiders. I don't know what SDP is trying to do by trying to interfere in the business operations of SMRT. China also can't tell foxconn how to run its businesses too. I'll be pissed if someone outside the company wants to interfere in my business operations.

 

So you're saying (and stepping outside the construct of the SMRT situation) that we should just accept bullying and exploitation? That an employer taking advantage of the less educated and less powerful is ok?

 

That we should just "shut-up" so long as the boss makes a profit all is fair?