[Joseph22]

i think some people were disputing the idea that strikes are wrong

 

not really. the dispute was for us general public to pin the fault of the strike on PRC fault alone.. which many are doing that.

 

what some of us is saying, this take two hand to clap and SMRT is definitely more at fault.

 

Strike is right or wrong, leave it to the legal people. but us as a singaporean have to think, is SMRT (wanted to say GLC but that did be a sweeping remark) way of doing things correct?

[Sabian]

actually i didnt realise CKP reply. i no time today to type long post...

his reply is better. but basically, a lot of company in USA are moving towards selling their own country made product and more and more american are looking at buying MIA item liao. Even their largest Mart (forgot what mart liao) are increasing their MIA product while reducing MIC products.

His reply is better? You make it sound like your reply and his are on the same track... [laugh]

[Joseph22]

His reply is better? You make it sound like your reply and his are on the same track... [laugh]

Of course, our reply is simply pointing towards Manmaster anyhow pomp..

 

Which i basically do what Manmaster do.

 

btw, there is really such movement in America if you wonder.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Joseph22

[TheRationalVoice]

Then how do you propose that those who are exploited gets heard? Are we not asking for trouble running our place in a manner where the less articulated gets exploited?

 

I see you are quoting countries like Greece and Spain on strikes... How about Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan and Germany. They have strikes and they are economic superpowers. For Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan, they too lack natural resources and 2 are under the threat of war all the time.

 

 

You and your spphist logic again. I badly thrashed you once. Don't let me do it again with the kind of crap you post.

[Manmaster]

The china drivers were wrong to go on strike in the first place & for the wrong reason.

 

If they claimed that SMRT bullied them, why didn't they go on strike when SMRT increased their pay which was a breach of contract as nobody should revise the pay? One has to be fair to all. You can't just keep those good things that benefit you but go on strike when something doesn't benefit you. A contract is a contract.

 

Never escalate a company specific problem into a national problem. If the managment doesn't listen to u, just leave the company. There is no need to impose your way on the company. Going on strike is a serious problem and is very disruptive to any business. I've a friend who is a plant manager and he told me that his company would suffer $1m loss per day if one production line stopped working. I asked him - Would u set up your plant in a country where strikes are being encouraged even though the labour cost is low? He said no as the disruptive cost would be too great and could cripple the company.

 

Businesses want stable environment and we must eradicate negative factors that impede business survival which will in turn be our own survival. SMRT's mismanagement is just a company specific problem and the china drivers shouldn't go on strike. If we allow such culture to develop whenever there is any mismanagement in any company, who will dare to come to SG to invest? However, the author would just prance at the chance for his personal & insidious gratification. This is something I don't like and will not agree to. PLS DO NOT DISRUPT THE SOCEITY'S PEACE FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT. NEVER ADVOCATE STRIKE!

[Manmaster]

sometimes you need upheaval to make things right. Great nations were not founded on peace, but blood. Evil will prevail when good men do nothing. I don't support strikes when there are other avenues to sort out the problems. But if every other means were exhausted, then a strike is the only way left. Just like Singapore won't go to war. But if we need to for our survival, so be it. That could have been the perspective of the drivers. Having done all they could, no one listened. And from what you mentioned, SMRT was simply wrong in changing the contract.

 

If the circumstances really called for it like u said was akin to going to war, the china drivers would not stop the strike after the china embassy talked to them. Those drivers didn't strike when SMRT increased their pay which was already a breach of contract. Going to war is a serious matter. U don't stop easily after going to war.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Manmaster

[Porker]

If the circumstances really called for it like u said was akin to going to war, the china drivers would not stop the strike after the china embassy talked to them. Those drivers didn't strike when SMRT increased their pay which was already a breach of contract. Going to war is a serious matter. U don't stop easily after going to war.

 

Your argument of them being wrong by not going on strike after getting a pay raise is simply put idiotic, stupid, nonsensical and lacks basic human logic. Please stop embarrassing yourself further with such half baked posts.

[Royho1979]

Who got exploited?

 

 

Strikes would definitely affect business sentiment in SG if nothing was done to curb it. By encouraging strikes would destroy SG. Do you know that richer european nations didn't dare to tour Greece as they were afraid of being stranded in Greece or being mobbed. We should not encourage things that are detrimental to SG's survival and strike is one of them.

 

Just look at Apple, Apple is shifting 1 production line back to US. Why? There are 2 main reasons for this move. Minimum wage in China & strikes at foxconn. Foxconn will lose 1 production line in china and is also planning to set up more production lines in US. This will definitely cause more job losses in china as foxconn will hire less china workers. When investors start to view SG as an unstable economy, businesses will start to shift out. Is that what you want for SG?

 

A lot of your post do not make sense. Anyway, you used Greece as a boogey man to incite fear again. I enjoy going to Japan, Taiwan, Korea for leisure. Do they have strike? Yes. Explain why they are doing well in tourism. BTW, there are people who choke on water and die. Should you stop drinking water?

 

Apple is leaving China?Thats cos wage in China is rising. Remember the harddisk manufacturers leaving Singapore? They left bcause of $. No strikes, but they still left. Its all about the $. If Foxcon left cos they cant hire people in China exploitative salaries, good riddance. You think China needs Foxcon?

 

[Happily1986]

i think some people were disputing the idea that strikes are wrong

isn't it fantastic?

 

I open a company that operate essential services and have obligations to the public at large naturally. If I make a deliberately damaging decision (on hindsight), commit more gaffes, screw up on damaged control but hey it is ok! let's throw em couple of red herrings!

 

some disquiet but mostly people chewing up one another over the red herrings. Business as usual folks!

 

Ain't life grand?

Edited December 7, 2012 by Happily1986

[Happily1986]

Your argument of them being wrong by not going on strike after getting a pay raise is simply put idiotic, stupid, nonsensical and lacks basic human logic. Please stop embarrassing yourself further with such half baked posts.

[Ngck]

The china drivers were wrong to go on strike in the first place & for the wrong reason.

 

If they claimed that SMRT bullied them, why didn't they go on strike when SMRT increased their pay which was a breach of contract as nobody should revise the pay? One has to be fair to all. You can't just keep those good things that benefit you but go on strike when something doesn't benefit you. A contract is a contract.

 

Never escalate a company specific problem into a national problem. If the managment doesn't listen to u, just leave the company. There is no need to impose your way on the company. Going on strike is a serious problem and is very disruptive to any business. I've a friend who is a plant manager and he told me that his company would suffer $1m loss per day if one production line stopped working. I asked him - Would u set up your plant in a country where strikes are being encouraged even though the labour cost is low? He said no as the disruptive cost would be too great and could cripple the company.

 

Businesses want stable environment and we must eradicate negative factors that impede business survival which will in turn be our own survival. SMRT's mismanagement is just a company specific problem and the china drivers shouldn't go on strike. If we allow such culture to develop whenever there is any mismanagement in any company, who will dare to come to SG to invest? However, the author would just prance at the chance for his personal & insidious gratification. This is something I don't like and will not agree to. PLS DO NOT DISRUPT THE SOCEITY'S PEACE FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT. NEVER ADVOCATE STRIKE!

 

you are a very simple minded man... i feel...

 

or just posting rubbish reasons to justify your position

 

[Royho1979]

I see quite a few people keeps mentioning Taiwan and Korea has strikes but they are still doing well so strikes cannot be bad for Singapore.

 

Some people quote Spain and Greece (Especially) as examples of bad effects of Strikes on the economy.

 

Nobody actually went to discuss whether Singapore is more akin to Greece or Taiwan/Korea.

 

I think for Taiwan/Korean a major part of their economy/jobs come from domestic firms.

 

For Korea, I can list so many huge companies that will have significant presence in Korea no matter what happen.

 

Taiwan has close ties from China. They also has a very strong home grown tech sector.

 

Seriously, how many companies you think in Singapore is tied to Singapore? PSA?? SIA?? STEngineering?? any more? Singapore economy is based mainly by attracting OVERSEAS MNCs. How do we attract such MNCs??? just think about it. What makes MNCs come here? you will understand what will make them leave.

 

Just ask yourself where you are working in currently. Will your company stay if there is wide spread strikes in Singapore? I am sure mine wont. Maybe yours will.

 

You should read my post and understand my points in a holistic manner. I was trying to counter the simplistic logic that strike = no investment and economic disaster. Strikes does not have to be so, if your economy is up to mark in infrastructure. There are ways to make our economy better yet able to withstand the mild discomforts associated with strikes.

 

Is Singapore at a point where we cannot have strikes because we had not made efforts to develop local companies? Lets take a look at Hong Kong. It does not have many more world beaters MNC than SIngapore. They have strikes and had them before 1997. Are they doing something that allows their economy to flourish yet allow freedom of expression? My point is: strikes are tiny factor influencing FDI. Guess what, you cant have big FDI in small countries yet expect your SMEs to growth into world beating MNCs like Samsung and Hyundai. DBS, UOB and OCBC are where they are now only because the likes of CITI, Stanchart and the big boys are restricted from entering the banking scene in the past, so your local linked MNC explanation cannot happen for as long as we stick to our economic model.

 

It seems what you are trying to say is that at present, our our country lack the right incentive to draw investment that unless it has a ready pool of exploited pseudo slaves available they will leave? Is this the right way to run the economy? Is there not a greater underlying problem wit the economy that needs to be address?

 

Finally, are you sure homegrown companies have such strong links to where they are from? How of P&G shampoos are made in US? Did HSBC not considered moving its HQ to Hongkong?

 

 

 

 

[Ahtong]

I have to agree with Royho.

 

Just want to add that strikes / protest are not always violent civilian vs polis clashes our nation building press like to potray.

 

For bus driver strikes, I have encountered it a few times overseas. Somtimes they continue driving but don't collect fares. Other times, they totally don't drive for a day (but give ample warning beforehand)

 

So the SMRT mass MC / sit-in /strike is really quite mild.

 

Sometimes a country and its citizen needs to have more mature thinking.

[Cerano]

I have to agree with Royho.

 

Just want to add that strikes / protest are not always violent civilian vs polis clashes our nation building press like to potray.

 

For bus driver strikes, I have encountered it a few times overseas. Somtimes they continue driving but don't collect fares. Other times, they totally don't drive for a day (but give ample warning beforehand)

 

So the SMRT mass MC / sit-in /strike is really quite mild.

 

Sometimes a country and its citizen needs to have more mature thinking.

 

Dear bro Ah tong,

 

its not about violence or anything like that. The simple act of causing service disruption and setting a precedent could prove fatal for the smooth operation of our country. If one day all the nurses or doctors walked out. How many would die?

[Ben5266]

isn't it fantastic?

 

I open a company that operate essential services and have obligations to the public at large naturally. If I make a deliberately damaging decision (on hindsight), commit more gaffes, screw up on damaged control but hey it is ok! let's throw em couple of red herrings!

 

some disquiet but mostly people chewing up one another over the red herrings. Business as usual folks!

 

Ain't life grand?

Are you in anyway related to TH or not? If not, drop your dream of operating an essential service company.

[Ben5266]

So now Vincent admitted anyhow claim... Dr. Vasoo... and wants to take back his words.....

 

 

[Ahtong]

Dear bro Ah tong,

 

its not about violence or anything like that. The simple act of causing service disruption and setting a precedent could prove fatal for the smooth operation of our country. If one day all the nurses or doctors walked out. How many would die?

 

Uncle Cerano, this is a rather leading question. It is a slippery slope assumption that professionals value $$$ above all and will just walk away if they are not happy. Maybe we can survey the docs here if they will just walk out in the middle of treating patients over some industrial dispute.

 

I know of one group of talents who will apparently walk out if they are paid too little but other than them, I think a country and its citizens really need to be more mature.

[Tjkbeluga]

As always, two sides of thought.... one side dont want to rock the boat and keep incumbent political party and tge other side wants to replace it by all means...