BYD Sealion 7

[Lethalstrike]

On 4/24/2025 at 10:31 AM, Kar_lover said:

When i get my EV i will turn off (or minimise) the regen braking so i can't (and don't want to) rely on regen braking. If i end up with an MEB car (i have not ruled it out), i would likely upgrade my front brakes to a 6 potter... 

Actually even if you don't use one pedal drive mode, u step on the brake pedal its still doing regen braking. 

Edited April 24 by Lethalstrike

[Kar_lover]

On 4/24/2025 at 5:41 PM, Lethalstrike said:

Actually even if you don't use one pedal drive mode, u step on the brake pedal its still doing regen braking. 

I guess it's not whether it is technically regen braking or not that i have concerns with - as long as at the end of the day the car doesn't slow down too sharply i am fine.

[marcuspeck]

@Kar_lover For the Enyaq, you can set 3 different regen levels on the paddle shifters, plus on the gear shifter there is mode B (mode B is equivalent to 1 pedal driving which is the same level 3 regen). You can also set to "auto" (which is the default drive mode when you start the car) and auto is equivalent to driving an ICE car when you let go of the accelerator, the car cruises along.

https://milesskoda.co.nz/e-mobility/what-is-ev-recuperation/

I'm not sure of the Tavascan though, you have to perform a test drive to check the details.

[Kar_lover]

On 4/25/2025 at 11:00 AM, marcuspeck said:

@Kar_lover For the Enyaq, you can set 3 different regen levels on the paddle shifters, plus on the gear shifter there is mode B (mode B is equivalent to 1 pedal driving which is the same level 3 regen). You can also set to "auto" (which is the default drive mode when you start the car) and auto is equivalent to driving an ICE car when you let go of the accelerator, the car cruises along.

https://milesskoda.co.nz/e-mobility/what-is-ev-recuperation/

I'm not sure of the Tavascan though, you have to perform a test drive to check the details.

Yep done the test drive already. Can turn off completely IIRC (in D mode). Can use the paddle shift to directly adjust. 

[steveting99]

On 4/23/2025 at 3:42 PM, Kar_lover said:

Going by the way u calculate markup, many vehicles will be high as well.

BMW iX1 listing at $272,888 with OMV of $47,200 - the "markup" is $92,658 or 196.3% That is more than DOUBLE of the Sealion.

Just use simple way of calculating gross profit being the selling price less total basic cost.

@Kar_lover The amount of profit that Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors is making on the BMW iX1 is simply obscene. One is effectively paying twice the CoE for a the iX1. The first CoE goes to Singapore government while the second CoE goes into the pocket of either Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors. 

If one isn't negotiating the profit margin with Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors when getting the BMW iX1, either one :

(a) has a big, wide and deep money pocket - so don't care;

(b) loves the BMW badge;

(c) wants to show off how well he/she is doing; or

(d) foolish.  

Possibly a combination of (a) through (d). Conti sales and marketing folks simply loves these type of people. Suspect a few lurking around MCF and looking for a few more customers (aka suckers) to bring in. 

[Rocky35]

Android Digital Car Key appears to be working between a Oppo Find X8 (non-pro, Singtel set) and the Sealion7.  Phone can lock the car even when the normal key fob is inside the car.

[Kar_lover]

On 4/25/2025 at 12:32 PM, steveting99 said:

@Kar_lover The amount of profit that Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors is making on the BMW iX1 is simply obscene. One is effectively paying twice the CoE for a the iX1. The first CoE goes to Singapore government while the second CoE goes into the pocket of either Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors. 

If one isn't negotiating the profit margin with Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors when getting the BMW iX1, either one :

(a) has a big, wide and deep money pocket - so don't care;

(b) loves the BMW badge;

(c) wants to show off how well he/she is doing; or

(d) foolish.  

Possibly a combination of (a) through (d). Conti sales and marketing folks simply loves these type of people. Suspect a few lurking around MCF and looking for a few more customers (aka suckers) to bring in. 

My point was that the way u calculate markup/profit is not correct or perhaps misleading. It creates the impression that "greedy dealers" are earning a lot. Their actual margin is actually the selling price (whatever the prevailing promo is) less the basic cost price (before the salesman comms, OBU and whatever road tax they are giving).

Of course everyone negotiates, that is a given (this is Singapore leh). I am also currently involved in a fierce negotiation for my EV lol....

[inlinesix]

On 4/25/2025 at 12:49 PM, Kar_lover said:

My point was that the way u calculate markup/profit is not correct or perhaps misleading. It creates the impression that "greedy dealers" are earning a lot. Their actual margin is actually the selling price (whatever the prevailing promo is) less the basic cost price (before the salesman comms, OBU and whatever road tax they are giving).

Of course everyone negotiates, that is a given (this is Singapore leh). I am also currently involved in a fierce negotiation for my EV lol....

On 4/25/2025 at 12:32 PM, steveting99 said:

@Kar_lover The amount of profit that Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors is making on the BMW iX1 is simply obscene. One is effectively paying twice the CoE for a the iX1. The first CoE goes to Singapore government while the second CoE goes into the pocket of either Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors. 

If one isn't negotiating the profit margin with Eurokars Auto or Performance Motors when getting the BMW iX1, either one :

(a) has a big, wide and deep money pocket - so don't care;

(b) loves the BMW badge;

(c) wants to show off how well he/she is doing; or

(d) foolish.  

Possibly a combination of (a) through (d). Conti sales and marketing folks simply loves these type of people. Suspect a few lurking around MCF and looking for a few more customers (aka suckers) to bring in. 

For BMW, the calculated margin is a useless information. I said a lot of times previously.

BMW sells to BMW Asia => OMV.

BMW Asia sells AD => Wholesale Price.

The margin between Wholesale and Retail price is everybody guess.

[Kar_lover]

On 4/25/2025 at 1:03 PM, inlinesix said:

For BMW, the calculated margin is a useless information. I said a lot of times previously.

BMW sells to BMW Asia => OMV.

BMW Asia sells AD => Wholesale Price.

The margin between Wholesale and Retail price is everybody guess.

I was just using BMW as an example cos my friend got 1 a couple of months ago....

 

Ok, i think we have digressed enough from the original topic lol.... let's stick to Sealion 7. This car is actually also only my shortlist (which is why i dropped by this thread) - i think got some owners here. Care to share any good or bad points? I saw 3 within a short time yesterday. It's really selling well...

 

[inlinesix]

On 4/25/2025 at 1:06 PM, Kar_lover said:

I was just using BMW as an example cos my friend got 1 a couple of months ago....

Ok, i think we have digressed enough from the original topic lol.... let's stick to Sealion 7. This car is actually also only my shortlist (which is why i dropped by this thread) - i think got some owners here. Care to share any good or bad points? I saw 3 within a short time yesterday. It's really selling well...

BYD will be the same.

BYD is the importer while Vantage (& the rest) is the distributor.

[marcuspeck]

@inlinesix Sime Darby group is the main distributor for BMW and BYD right? Do correct me if I am wrong.

Edited April 25 by marcuspeck

[steveting99]

On 4/25/2025 at 12:49 PM, Kar_lover said:

My point was that the way u calculate markup/profit is not correct or perhaps misleading. It creates the impression that "greedy dealers" are earning a lot. Their actual margin is actually the selling price (whatever the prevailing promo is) less the basic cost price (before the salesman comms, OBU and whatever road tax they are giving).

Of course everyone negotiates, that is a given (this is Singapore leh). I am also currently involved in a fierce negotiation for my EV lol....

@Kar_lover I crunched the numbers for the BMW iX1 eDrive20.

The OMV value, 20% excuse duty, GST, ARF, VES, EEAI, Registration Fee is given by LTA's cost of cars for March 2025 and highlighted in yellow below.

OMV = $47k. This is a key metric as it includes BMW's manufacturer profit margin, their warranty costs, shipping and insurance of getting the iX1 eDrive20 into Singapore. 

20% excise duty = $9.4k

GST ( @9% which includes OMV + excise duty) = $5.1k

Tiered ARF ( 100% of OMV for 1st $20k, 140% of OMV between $20k to $40k, 190% of OMV between $40k to $60k, 250% of OMV between $60k to $80k and 320% above $80k) = $71.2k

VES band for BMW iX1 eDrive20 is A1 = -$25k rebate...🤑

Because the iX1 eDrive20 is a pure EV, it gets the EEAI rebate (maximum of -$15k or 45% of tiered ARF and cannot be more than ARF) = -$15k ...👍

Registration fee = $0.4k

IU reader = $0.2k

Road tax (inclusive of $0.7k petrol subsidy) = $1.6k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 before Cat A CoE = $94.8k

Cat A CoE (as at 25-Apr-2025) = $99.5k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 (including Cat A CoE) = $194.3k

Pricelist from BMW is given below and is current as of 25-Apr-2025. Highlighted in yellow is the price for the iX1 eDrive20.

It's $274.9k as highlighted in yellow. Notice how BMW raised the price of iX1 eDrive20 between March to April 2025 when Cat A CoE went up to maximize dealer margins? Just the greedy nature of the business. 

Dealer margin = $274.9k - $194.3k = $80.6k or 171% of OMV. This is how much Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto are making off each iX1 eDrive20. I consider this to be an obscene amount of profit and any potential owner should be negotiating for a lower price. 

In 2024, Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto flogged off 2,535 BMWs. Approximately 7 BMWs are sold very day in Singapore in 2024. When making a minimum of $80k per vehicle, works out to be $561k per day in profit margin. Flogging off BMW's in Singapore is a lucrative business - with lots of customers.  

Edited April 25 by steveting99
typo and additional text

[inlinesix]

On 4/25/2025 at 8:33 PM, steveting99 said:

@Kar_lover I crunched the numbers for the BMW iX1 eDrive20.

The OMV value, 20% excuse duty, GST, ARF, VES, EEAI, Registration Fee is given by LTA's cost of cars for March 2025 and highlighted in yellow below.

OMV = $47k. This is a key metric as it includes BMW's manufacturer profit margin, their warranty costs, shipping and insurance of getting the iX1 eDrive20 into Singapore. 

20% excise duty = $9.4k

GST ( @9% which includes OMV + excise duty) = $5.1k

Tiered ARF ( 100% of OMV for 1st $20k, 140% of OMV between $20k to $40k, 190% of OMV between $40k to $60k, 250% of OMV between $60k to $80k and 320% above $80k) = $71.2k

VES band for BMW iX1 eDrive20 is A1 = -$25k rebate...🤑

Because the iX1 eDrive20 is a pure EV, it gets the EEAI rebate (maximum of -$15k or 45% of tiered ARF and cannot be more than ARF) = -$15k ...👍

Registration fee = $0.4k

IU reader = $0.2k

Road tax (inclusive of $0.7k petrol subsidy) = $1.6k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 before Cat A CoE = $94.8k

Cat A CoE (as at 25-Apr-2025) = $99.5k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 (including Cat A CoE) = $194.3k

Pricelist from BMW is given below and is current as of 25-Apr-2025. Highlighted in yellow is the price for the iX1 eDrive20.

It's $274.9k as highlighted in yellow. Notice how BMW raised the price of iX1 eDrive20 between March to April 2025 when Cat A CoE went up to maximize dealer margins? Just the greedy nature of the business. 

Dealer margin = $274.9k - $194.3k = $80.6k or 171% of OMV. This is how much Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto are making off each iX1 eDrive20. I consider this to be an obscene amount of profit and any potential owner should be negotiating for a lower price. 

In 2024, Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto flogged off 2,535 BMWs. Approximately 7 BMWs are sold very day in Singapore in 2024. When making a minimum of $80k per vehicle, works out to be $561k per day in profit margin. Flogging off BMW's in Singapore is a lucrative business - with lots of customers.  

The $80.6k is shared btw BMW Asia and AD.

BMW Asia is the importer 

Edited April 25 by inlinesix

[Rskc]

On 4/25/2025 at 8:33 PM, steveting99 said:

@Kar_lover I crunched the numbers for the BMW iX1 eDrive20.

The OMV value, 20% excuse duty, GST, ARF, VES, EEAI, Registration Fee is given by LTA's cost of cars for March 2025 and highlighted in yellow below.

OMV = $47k. This is a key metric as it includes BMW's manufacturer profit margin, their warranty costs, shipping and insurance of getting the iX1 eDrive20 into Singapore. 

20% excise duty = $9.4k

GST ( @9% which includes OMV + excise duty) = $5.1k

Tiered ARF ( 100% of OMV for 1st $20k, 140% of OMV between $20k to $40k, 190% of OMV between $40k to $60k, 250% of OMV between $60k to $80k and 320% above $80k) = $71.2k

VES band for BMW iX1 eDrive20 is A1 = -$25k rebate...🤑

Because the iX1 eDrive20 is a pure EV, it gets the EEAI rebate (maximum of -$15k or 45% of tiered ARF and cannot be more than ARF) = -$15k ...👍

Registration fee = $0.4k

IU reader = $0.2k

Road tax (inclusive of $0.7k petrol subsidy) = $1.6k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 before Cat A CoE = $94.8k

Cat A CoE (as at 25-Apr-2025) = $99.5k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 (including Cat A CoE) = $194.3k

Pricelist from BMW is given below and is current as of 25-Apr-2025. Highlighted in yellow is the price for the iX1 eDrive20.

It's $274.9k as highlighted in yellow. Notice how BMW raised the price of iX1 eDrive20 between March to April 2025 when Cat A CoE went up to maximize dealer margins? Just the greedy nature of the business. 

Dealer margin = $274.9k - $194.3k = $80.6k or 171% of OMV. This is how much Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto are making off each iX1 eDrive20. I consider this to be an obscene amount of profit and any potential owner should be negotiating for a lower price. 

In 2024, Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto flogged off 2,535 BMWs. Approximately 7 BMWs are sold very day in Singapore in 2024. When making a minimum of $80k per vehicle, works out to be $561k per day in profit margin. Flogging off BMW's in Singapore is a lucrative business - with lots of customers.  

Bro, have you visited EK or PML to try to buy a bimmer? The recommended price is NOT the price seasoned bimmer fan/owners would pay. 😄

[Tohto]

On 4/25/2025 at 8:52 PM, Rskc said:

Bro, have you visited EK or PML to try to buy a bimmer? The recommended price is NOT the price seasoned bimmer fan/owners would pay. 😄

Just ignored this keyboard warrior lah....

Basically non stop digging all the online data... no physical personal experience. 

Edited April 25 by Tohto

[Lethalstrike]

On 4/25/2025 at 8:33 PM, steveting99 said:

@Kar_lover I crunched the numbers for the BMW iX1 eDrive20.

The OMV value, 20% excuse duty, GST, ARF, VES, EEAI, Registration Fee is given by LTA's cost of cars for March 2025 and highlighted in yellow below.

OMV = $47k. This is a key metric as it includes BMW's manufacturer profit margin, their warranty costs, shipping and insurance of getting the iX1 eDrive20 into Singapore. 

20% excise duty = $9.4k

GST ( @9% which includes OMV + excise duty) = $5.1k

Tiered ARF ( 100% of OMV for 1st $20k, 140% of OMV between $20k to $40k, 190% of OMV between $40k to $60k, 250% of OMV between $60k to $80k and 320% above $80k) = $71.2k

VES band for BMW iX1 eDrive20 is A1 = -$25k rebate...🤑

Because the iX1 eDrive20 is a pure EV, it gets the EEAI rebate (maximum of -$15k or 45% of tiered ARF and cannot be more than ARF) = -$15k ...👍

Registration fee = $0.4k

IU reader = $0.2k

Road tax (inclusive of $0.7k petrol subsidy) = $1.6k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 before Cat A CoE = $94.8k

Cat A CoE (as at 25-Apr-2025) = $99.5k

Basic cost of BMW iX1 eDrive20 (including Cat A CoE) = $194.3k

Pricelist from BMW is given below and is current as of 25-Apr-2025. Highlighted in yellow is the price for the iX1 eDrive20.

It's $274.9k as highlighted in yellow. Notice how BMW raised the price of iX1 eDrive20 between March to April 2025 when Cat A CoE went up to maximize dealer margins? Just the greedy nature of the business. 

Dealer margin = $274.9k - $194.3k = $80.6k or 171% of OMV. This is how much Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto are making off each iX1 eDrive20. I consider this to be an obscene amount of profit and any potential owner should be negotiating for a lower price. 

In 2024, Performance Motors and Eurokar Auto flogged off 2,535 BMWs. Approximately 7 BMWs are sold very day in Singapore in 2024. When making a minimum of $80k per vehicle, works out to be $561k per day in profit margin. Flogging off BMW's in Singapore is a lucrative business - with lots of customers.  

As inlinesix has mentioned, the OMV is not the cost price of EK and PML, although I know this is all we can see in order to simulate their profit margin. There is another wholesale or transfer price which is usually much higher than the OMV and that's the actual price EK and PML is buying from BMW Asia. This is absolutely secret info and nobody would know unless you are EK and PML. BMW is not alone, many other brands especially those with regional head offices in singapore does this. So the profit per car is not as obscene as what one can calculate based on public info such as OMV plus costs up. 

iX1 MSRP is $274k before overtrade and all other promos. Now they advertising promo on Facebook ads at $223,888 la. You go down still can nego a bit more if salesman hard up. Continental brands like MB, Audi, BMW, Volvo, VW and even Lexus the actual transacted purchase price is usually quite far off the MSRPs you see on the pricelist. 

Edited April 25 by Lethalstrike

[Rskc]

On 4/25/2025 at 11:11 PM, Tohto said:

Just ignored this keyboard warrior lah....

Basically non stop digging all the online data... no physical personal experience. 

Just trying to gently correct him 😄Cos all conti owners are probably smiling at him being a "little" ignorant and getting into anlaysis paralysis. 

[Terence2112]

The ix1 was retailing at $208,888 during PML’s roadshow back in March. 
 

It was a steal then.

Maybe can ask the bro here to calculate based on the above price, and see whether the profit margin still obscene? 

Edited April 26 by Terence2112