Pastor

[Ehchang8]

Well said. If she is so famous.... how come she is not singing in NDP. I think to be able to sing in NDP is a guage of how popular she is for that year. I guess she is only well liked in CHC.

i only heard of her after CHC was in the news.

[Axela72]

Why someone seek to be a pastor if he is not seeking the extreme? The fully devoted to God and possibility to be a saint.

 

By quoting said "extreme example", he might not be explicitly stating that his congregation should do the same, but it's rather obvious that he is encouraging his congregation to adopt the similar spirit of sacrifice by "giving until it hurts". Also otherwise known as inference, it also has everything to do with his position of influence within his church, since he's speaking to the masses with a spiritual authority, his own actions and lifestyle should be free of reproach and hypocrisy. As such, he is directly encouraging similar behavior among his congregation, exerting his influence to convince normal folks to engage in behavior has the potential to disrupt or even harm their financial status/health. Throw in the current suspicion of financial wrong-doing and this becomes all the more sinister all of a sudden.

 

It is true that people are ultimately responsible for their own choices and the consequences of these choices, but the role of governance is to implement and then enforce a set of rules regulating social interaction to ensure that individuals do not cause harm to others through deception, violence or other malicious acts; and that if they do, they are adequately punished to serve as a form of deterrence. It follows that people in position of strong influence and of authority should be regulated to ensure that they do not abuse their authority or unjustly exert their influence to mislead or deceive the populace at large for their own benefit. I am sure you are well aware of the strict rules regulating the behavior and interests of corporate figures of authority such as directors or senior management, in order to prevent any conflict of interest or insider trading, etc.

 

All the more so that such strict rules are similarly applicable to religious leaders, especially considering that the influence they exert is significantly more so that that of corporate figures, and that the folks they tend to influence are arguably more naive and less sophisticated than investors and other participants in the corporate/financial sector. Therefore, it is rather disingenuous to suggest that religious folks have the right to preach whatever teachings they might choose to whoever might listen as people are ultimately responsible for their own choices. That is akin to saying that drug dealers should be allowed to roam free on the streets dealing their poison since people have the right to consume drugs and harm themselves and society at large in the process. Quite an extreme example I must say, but one that's appropriate considering that all this hoo-hah is centered around the use of an "extreme" example.

 

[Axela72]

So they are a making those shameless couple matyrs?? PUI!!! These supporters are equally guilty of tarnishing the name of Christ if they even go that far to claim that.

 

Cultist don't know that they are evil. You u know what I mean.

[Darryn]

i only heard of her after CHC was in the news.

 

I actually met her before....there was her, Steph Sun and Kit Chan when they did the Hands United CD with Cathay Pacific. This was just after the Tsunami.

 

Helping with the launch press con I remember Kit Chan as being very aproachable but Suns manager as being very protective....

[Niteblu]

 

What does the Bible say about the prosperity gospel?

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/prosperity-gospel.html

 

...prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will. The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church.

 

The pursuit of wealth is a dangerous path for Christians and one which God warns about:

Edited June 22, 2010 by Niteblu

[Kklim]

Was arguing with a CHC friend who ate their heroin coated caviar. She said Sun Ho was #1 in USA Billboard leh. Somehow, she deleted the comments. Anyone can verify?

 

Read in Asiaone Forums that people (employees?) are given prepaid iTunes cards and told to download her songs, and that two couples were flown to Taiwan to buy up all her CDs so she'll end up on top of the charts. The Asiaone Forums thread on the CHC investigation is now more than 300 pages long! Latest is some members are trying to raise $2m for a defence fund.

[Kingcopa]

Read in Asiaone Forums that people (employees?) are given prepaid iTunes cards and told to download her songs, and that two couples were flown to Taiwan to buy up all her CDs so she'll end up on top of the charts. The Asiaone Forums thread on the CHC investigation is now more than 300 pages long! Latest is some members are trying to raise $2m for a defence fund.

those followers are really hopeless liao. Follow blindly...... i think even if verdict come out that both are guilty, they will not accept it. Sekali they go out on the street to protest

[Nutsack]

[Toapayohkid]

those followers are really hopeless liao. Follow blindly...... i think even if verdict come out that both are guilty, they will not accept it. Sekali they go out on the street to protest

 

i think the majority of chc people are thinking straight and waiting for verdict first. but yah, those chc people who die die support defend and in denial, they a bit scary. probably those teenage kids who think sun ho and kong hee as their idols. ....idols. idolotory. false gods. golden calf. lol ok just kidding, no offence to the moderate chc people!

[Toapayohkid]

 

 

lol wah damn low blow lah! heeeehawwww

[Darryn]

Read in Asiaone Forums that people (employees?) are given prepaid iTunes cards and told to download her songs, and that two couples were flown to Taiwan to buy up all her CDs so she'll end up on top of the charts. The Asiaone Forums thread on the CHC investigation is now more than 300 pages long! Latest is some members are trying to raise $2m for a defence fund.

 

Hmmm... I wonder...go buy her CD using church fund, then give out as free gift at Sunday performance Service, like dat is it fraud or fair use of funds? Not that I neccessarily think they did this, it is pure speculation

[Toapayohkid]

Hmmm... I wonder...go buy her CD using church fund, then give out as free gift at Sunday performance Service, like dat is it fraud or fair use of funds? Not that I neccessarily think they did this, it is pure speculation

 

hmmm that is a slick way of doing it. maybe they did? who knows.

[Felipe]

If i say that some of you here are wasting too much time on MCF making yourself heard (i judge base on post count), you will probably defend yourself by saying that you know how to manage time, you are just doing it in your free time, blah blah.

 

Same for CHC members. Try telling them that they have been conned.

They will tell you they are matured/smart enough to judge for themselves who is right, who is wrong.

 

Please also exercise restraint in your posting.

Nobody proven guilty yet.

All those negative postings may be used to sue for libel.

 

Don't get into trouble just to make yourself heard.

thanks for the reminder. some caution needs to be exercised in the way ppl post here.

[Damienic]

i think the majority of chc people are thinking straight and waiting for verdict first. but yah, those chc people who die die support defend and in denial, they a bit scary. probably those teenage kids who think sun ho and kong hee as their idols. ....idols. idolotory. false gods. golden calf. lol ok just kidding, no offence to the moderate chc people!

 

I believe if say the guilty verdict is out, probably a portion would accept the verdict while the balance may refuse to accept and claims there is a conspiracy against their leaders..I say dun be surprised if the latter happens..

[Jman888]

anyone has evident of these mega church actually help the poor members by giving them money while they were sick, hospitalised, retrenched, etc.

 

if a member donate $300k wholeheartedly even if they do not expect any return (maybe spiritually), will they get monetary help from these church at time of difficulty, without questions asked? don't tell me mental support which i do see a lot of those.

[Felipe]

Now to sidetrack and go off topic a little...

 

It seems that concerns with the way the church was being run were raised some time ago. It seems also that at the time there were questions asked about whether the money being used for Sun's career came from the church.

 

These questions were silenced by a defamation case.

 

NKF's Mr. TT employed the same tactic (remember he won judgement against two guys that claimed to have seen him flying first class?)

 

Given the above two cases, whereby public figures (apparently) used the courts to silence questions that later turned out to be valid, (the questions were valid, even if not totally proven). If the questions had been followed through at the time, would "bad deeds" have been stopped earlier?

 

Given this, is it time to review Singapore's defamation laws? Should it be made easier to raise such questions of public in a public forum?

 

Also, is there enough investigative journalism happening in Singapore? Given that questions were raised long long ago abt CHC, did the media dig, or did they just report....could the Singapore media pull of a Woodward and Bernstein?

You brought up some important points. If CHC is guilty, I'm sure that person who brought up the case initially would be interviewed again and would say he feels vindicated or simply 'I told you so'.

 

Now seriously, he was just an ordinary member in the church whose business was not even doing well. He had to pay several thousand dollars to publish the apology letter, of which he could not even afford and a friend had to help him through it. Obviously when the public read the apology in the papers, they would assume he made false accusations. But what else could he have done? With no hard evidence and of course, loads of money to burn, the only way out was to issue an apology. I'm not saying he had evidence to begin with, but I think it was pretty clear he stopped the minute the lawyers came into the picture. In short, you don't fight someone when you don't have the ammunition and he paid a hefty price for his actions.

 

The result was an apology plus forgiveness from the church. Obviously again, what else the church could have done other than to forgive him? After all, they preach forgiveness although I'm not so sure whether he is still in that church.

 

Fast forward to today, some smart aleck/s complained to COC instead of going straight to the press. In this way, lawyers cannot direct their attention on powerless ppl and I'm quite sure they wouldn't want to try their luck on COC or CAD to issue apologies. The lesson one can learn is if you don't have the ammunition, get those who have, to do the fighting for you.

[Felipe]

I found the comments from a CHC member friend:

 

FYI: In 2003, Ho broke into Hollywood with her debut American single

[Felipe]

yah lor. can tok about something else? [laugh]

can, but a new thread must be opened then.