Pastor

[Felipe]

But the word they use is different, faith in this faith in that... Faith is when there is no evidence, is blind... Loyalty is a different thing, loyalty is when you know it is wrong and standby it.

 

In this instance, they have gotten the definition of faith wrong... Or had they been taught wrongly?

 

You can say I have faith that he did not commit any wrongdoings before the evidence is out...

 

But when the evidence is out, you can say I standby him and forgive him... Not I have faith in his actions or faith when there is evidence and is clear...

ya, not faith anymore, but a genuine heart of forgiveness. u know u still forgive. not easy and not many ppl like that. i don't think i can be like that too.

[Cdrarities]

If Kong Hee and associates are found to be guilty and put behind bars, wonder what will be the reaction of the followers. There have been many instances around the world that cult leaders/members who felt that they were being persecuted, resorted to mass suicide:

 

Cult Suicide

 

It's time to WAKE UP for these CHC members.

 

 

[Acemundo]

haha machiam triad like that..

 

everything listen to 老大 because he is always right.

[Blackseal]

What's the big deal ? Whether she spends S$28k a mth or S$2.8 million a month...it's none of your biz as long as they dun take $$$ from the church...tio boh ?

 

Our PM, MM and the entire LEE family can also have lavish makan sessions and buy expensive toys as they deem fit.....they tell u SO WHAT ? It's their money and they can do what they want....Bottom line is.....it's not taken from the state coffers...IT IS OK !

[Duckduck]

Warmup

 

i wonder if chc members see before

[Felipe]

Rude awakening for one CHC member and guess what? Her comments has since been deleted from KHFC's webby

sad for the person. i grew up in my young teenage days attending CHC. Those days, the message of giving is still the same as now. Give sacrificially, like what the writer said. The thing is being small church, i really saw my then leader sacrificing too, career prospects and other things just for God. So he sacrifice, everybody follow and sacrifice. I don't attend that place now but little did i know things have changed so much and seems like he's not sacrificing or i may be wrong.

 

 

[Ender]

I have actually attended a few of the "Business Breakthrough Group" meetings hosted by the business elites among the CHC congregation just to see what were up to.

 

You will be surprised at how they explicitly linked the sub-prime crisis and possibly every other financial disaster to the "plan of God". What was pretty scary was how the "leaders" of this particular group was exhorting their fellow "brothers and sisters" to convert their cash and financial instrument holdings into commodities and resource-based assets such as mines, farms, etc..... so as to control the flow of resources when "Armageddon" comes and to seize power in the aftermath, where such commodities will become the true wealth and currency will become worthless.

 

If this isn't alarming, I don't know what is.

 

Sieze power when amargeddon comes!. They think they are the beast.

[Felipe]

Sieze power when amargeddon comes!. They think they are the beast.

very strange theory, even by Christian theory. Cos when that happens, Christ will seize power, certainly don't need christians to seize power for Him.

[Darryn]

What's the big deal ? Whether she spends S$28k a mth or S$2.8 million a month...it's none of your biz as long as they dun take $$$ from the church...tio boh ?

 

Our PM, MM and the entire LEE family can also have lavish makan sessions and buy expensive toys as they deem fit.....they tell u SO WHAT ? It's their money and they can do what they want....Bottom line is.....it's not taken from the state coffers...IT IS OK !

 

Have you read the entire thread, or did you just pop out from under your bridge for your daily excercise?

[Tarzan666]

Is this the same church which used to operate in a dingy building behind Lion City Hotel in early 1990s?

Remembered last time big groups of well dressed teenagers who frequent the church every wkends..Also remembered being approached by them a few times to join them when I was young..

 

In less than 20 years bcum like a big company liao..with subsidiaries & owning stakes at Suntec etc..

[Tigerwoods]

Well you see...

1. The "judgements" I am making here are not on the basis of her "putting hand into church till". That is pretty much irrelevant to what I have been saying about her

2. If you preach a "moral" lifestyle and "giving until it hurts" you have a responsibility to live up to that. You don't preach it for others and then flout your own idealks.

3. You are excluding the middle ground. Look at my earlier posts - driving an Accord, Mondeo, Tauraus and living in a $10k per month house is hardly driving a 20 year old beater and living in a hovel as you are trying to imply

4. If you put yourslef into the public eye as a leader, you should and are judged more than someone that does not put you forward.

 

and finally, a question for you...

5. If the PAP were to enact a law tomorrow, saying that govt ministers were exempt from income tax, would you think this fair? Or would you KPKB about it? What Sun and Kong Hee are doing is no different from this, teghy are saying - its ok for you all to pay tax to support the nation, but we are somehow different and better and don't have to support, our mere presence is support enough.

Well my middle ground is driving a Hyundai Avante and living in a HDB 4rm flat. Yours is higher...

 

I understand the case and I'm also inclined to throw that Stone at her too

However, she has all the rights to live in the lap of lux and wait for the time comes when CAD pulls out a Guilty Root in their Org. To be judgemental is already a wrong path to take for all human race.

As for the PAP thingy, lets put it this way as I've seen many quotes : Vote wisely brudders..

Same goes to the Devout Converts in CHC...

And, to put it forth again, Jesus is NOT Rich in earthly possessions. He owns it.

 

[Pokyman]

Christians tithe not because God really needs the $$$. Christians tithe because God has blessed them and that means giving back to Him for His honour and glory and also the $$$ is used to further His ministries. Going a bit deeper, titheing 10% is because money is "evil" and by giving Him the 10%, the remaining of the 90% of your income is blessed. 10 is also the number of the Law given by Moses, aka ten commandements.

 

That being said, if one tithe's and expects God to bless the person, then no, sorry, no can do. You tithe because you have been blessed and you give what you want to give of your own free will. If you had to sell your house and car and SUFFER just to tithe, i am sorry, God does not work this way and think that since you done that, He will make you rich.

 

That is why there are many Christians having the wrong concept of titehing , giving birth to so-called "prosperity" teachings. You do not come to God with riches as your no.1 priority, but with Him as no.1. Riches are actually the by-product.

 

In fact, to intepret the Bible, Jesus did not say come to me and you will be rich. He siad that He came so that we might have life and have it more abundantly. That also means prosperity in all areas of life, health, mind, career, family, and of course, moola.! Not only money, but all aspects of life. I believe other religions also preach the same thing, there is not one focus of life, but in all of the aspects of life.

 

Of course, there are rogue elements and if CHC is guilty of misuse of funds, they should be responsible for the debacle.

 

 

[Darryn]

Christians tithe not because God really needs the $$$. Christians tithe because God has blessed them and that means giving back to Him for His honour and glory and also the $$$ is used to further His ministries. Going a bit deeper, titheing 10% is because money is "evil" and by giving Him the 10%, the remaining of the 90% of your income is blessed. 10 is also the number of the Law given by Moses, aka ten commandements.

 

That being said, if one tithe's and expects God to bless the person, then no, sorry, no can do. You tithe because you have been blessed and you give what you want to give of your own free will. If you had to sell your house and car and SUFFER just to tithe, i am sorry, God does not work this way and think that since you done that, He will make you rich.

 

 

In short...Noblesse Oblige.

 

You give because you are able and you trust the church as a vehicle to serve both the needy and "the community" (in quotes because nowadays in global village community is a bit amorphous, not like in the early days of Christianity)

[Pokyman]

Well my middle ground is driving a Hyundai Avante and living in a HDB 4rm flat. Yours is higher...

 

I understand the case and I'm also inclined to throw that Stone at her too

However, she has all the rights to live in the lap of lux and wait for the time comes when CAD pulls out a Guilty Root in their Org. To be judgemental is already a wrong path to take for all human race.

As for the PAP thingy, lets put it this way as I've seen many quotes : Vote wisely brudders..

Same goes to the Devout Converts in CHC...

And, to put it forth again, Jesus is NOT Rich in earthly possessions. He owns it.

 

 

True that He owns it. In the Bible, when He travels, He and his 12 merry men travelled mostly with the shirts on their back. There was no amassing of immense wealth, trucks of gold and silver. When there was a need. it was met by God. e.g, the fish with the gold coin when they had to pay tax. Or the mulitplicatiom of bread and fish to feed the thousands.

 

Thus the being rich is actually having your needs met and your wants satisfied. Not everything is about the number of zeroes in the bank account...... Dun believe blindly. Religion or Politics

[Tigerwoods]

comfort your friend and say she won't lose friendship la. You are her friend, whatever church she's from. As for her undying belief in CHC, it's her personal choice. At the moment, i think you don't warn her but caution her at best. Most important, can give time, effort but keep wallet sealed for now.

 

your friend is female right? wonder if she'll be as forgiving if her boyfriend/ husband was unfaithful.

This one tough lah... Church and Leader and Money all things outside of body... Husband unfaithful is inside of body..

[Felipe]

 

In short...Noblesse Oblige.

 

You give because you are able and you trust the church as a vehicle to serve both the needy and "the community" (in quotes because nowadays in global village community is a bit amorphous, not like in the early days of Christianity)

the early christians didn't even tithe.

[Pokyman]

 

In short...Noblesse Oblige.

 

You give because you are able and you trust the church as a vehicle to serve both the needy and "the community" (in quotes because nowadays in global village community is a bit amorphous, not like in the early days of Christianity)

 

 

Yea, and if the church or its leaders failed you, time to move to a new church. The Word is still true, just that the vessels that spread the Word became misguided alomg the way.....

[Felipe]

This one tough lah... Church and Leader and Money all things outside of body... Husband unfaithful is inside of body..

no la, when husband unfaithful, it's outside her body. when faithful, he's inside her body.