CHC Trial Matters Part 2

[Jamesc]

 

 

jail got internet?

 

I thought these days got everything?

 

Mod cons for mod cons.

 

So it wasn't KH?

 

It was you? 

 

[Tonyng]

Funny. The person (some call the horse) in the centre of all these troubles, never once (if my memory is correct) came out in public to say those sent to jail have not done anything wrong or say something in their defence in public or in the courts.

 

If they believe they had not done anything wrong (which I believe that is what they try to convince us) and their laws of right and wrong are above the secular laws, then why don't their church or representative speak up loud and clear. They proclaim they have no fear of man-made laws except their God's law, then why this sudden apology of mis-whatever excuse just before being sent to jail.

 

I just wondered why people in the congregation never question? May be they know something that we don't.

 

I am curious because despite being convicted, the brand of church still have a very large following.

 

 

 

PS: I read somewhere but needs confirmation, that Suntec City, Hong Kee has a personal share.

I will attempt to explain.

 

Ongoing trial cannot comment. After the trial, apologise is fair and was done. How else would you want it?

 

I am not CHC member but from their website - i can see why they grow. One reason: sense of community. They are just people linking up with people knowing each other over years. People bond - hard to leave.

 

Theology emphasis may be wrong but this is debatable - if one lean on the Bible, as is set out in the CHC website - the main Christian tenets are there. Traditional churches style is guilt-tripping depending on personal experience -how right is that?

 

Of course, some people are just blind-leader-faith. But same in any religion.

 

Key thing - we do not know the hearts of the people - which is the "do not judge" bible line. So hard to comment.

 

This is why christians are divided on response, outsiders are puzzled, and you are curious. Hahaha

[Enye]

maybe white collar crime gets 2hrs internet access everyday

many people are eagerly waiting for his facebook updates

 

 

[Jman888]

many people are eagerly waiting for his facebook updates

 

ð

post the makan photos of what he eats everyday?

[RH1667]

post the makan photos of what he eats everyday?

Can request instead to see SW ?

[Joseph22]

not me alone per se la..

 

me and wife or me and gf or me and family....point is we sit back row....no will know us and so who will ask me to donate

They likely will pass around A bag for tithing.

 

U just let it pass. No one will notice or stare at u.

[Fcw75]

Put a yellow ribbon in the bag...haha.

[Yeshe]

Christians believe in tithing. 1/10th of your income.

This is also needed to pay for the church earthly expenses.

 

Anything more than a tithe becomes a prosperity church playground.

 

Tithing is about one's revelation and relationship with God.

No revelation dont tithe, God doesnt need money anyway.

 

[Blueray]

Penalties for crime must reflect public opinion: Shanmugam

 

 

 

BY

KELLY NG

[email protected]

PUBLISHED: 4:00 AM, APRIL 24, 2017

UPDATED: 11:11 AM, APRIL 24, 2017

 

SINGAPORE — How society feels about the punishment meted out in criminal cases has to be something the Government must pay heed to, but this does not equate to bowing to public pressure, said Law Minister K Shanmugam.

This is because, if penalties do not reflect the weight of public opinion and people do not find them fair, the law would lose its credibility and would not be enforceable, he added.

 

“You enhance the penalty (for a certain law) to reflect what people feel is the right penalty, what conduct should be more severely punished — that is not bowing down; that is understanding where the weight of public opinion is,” said Mr Shanmugam in an exclusive interview with TODAY last week.

He added: “(Paying attention to public expression) is important because these people represent the ground feelings ... Penalties and criminal laws can only be enforced if people believe that they are fair and that certain conduct ought to be made criminal ... Otherwise they lose credibility.”

Reviews of laws for a string of offences have been announced by Mr Shanmugam, who is also Minister for Home Affairs, in recent days, including some in high-profile cases that attracted close public attention, and even outcry.

For instance, he directed his ministries to relook the sentences for sex offenders such as Joshua Robinson, a mixed martial arts instructor who had sex with two 15-year-olds and showed an obscene film to a six-year-old.

The American was sentenced to four years’ jail, which was deemed too light by some — an online petition calling for a harsher sentence has since garnered almost 30,000 signatories.

In a Parliament sitting earlier this month, Mr Shanmugam said reviews of the laws relating to the abuse of foreign domestic workers was also being conducted.

While he did not cite any specific cases, news of the review came in the wake of a Singaporean couple who starved their maid, causing her weight to plunge from 49kg to 29.5kg in 15 months. The man was sentenced to three weeks’ jail and a S$10,000 fine while his wife was sentenced to three months’ jail.

Public outcry over penalties in individual cases do not necessarily lead to a review of the laws, Mr Shanmugam stressed, noting that reviews have been announced by ministries for laws in cases that did not attract any public attention.

Drugs, drink-driving, and false and malicious allegations against public officers are some offences that have been flagged recently for review.

He said: “Even without public expression, when I see a sentence (and if) I see these needs to be looked at ... (where) I feel need a review, I announce them. And that is our job.”

But, he noted: “When there is a reaction to a sentence by the public, as in the Joshua Robinson case, then I think it is important for us as policymakers to sit down and understand why people are upset ... It is important because these people represent the ground feelings — they are mothers, they are sisters, they are people who want their children to be safe.”

He added: “But it doesn’t mean automatically you agree with it. You must assess it, whether it is also fair. So, there are two parts to it — one, whether it is fair; two, what does the public believe is right.”

In a similar way to how he had urged the public against personal attacks on the High Court judges who recently reduced the sentences of six City Harvest Church leaders for misappropriating church funds, Mr Shanmugam said the announcement of reviews for laws should not be taken as an indictment of the work of the Attorney-General’s Chambers (AGC).

The Public Prosecutor can only apply the law of the day and it is up to the Government to decide what the laws and penalties ought to be, he noted.

“It is the task of the Government to decide what is the appropriate legislative provision. And that is the mixture of ... what is fair, what is right and also where is the weight of public opinion.”

A deputy public prosecutor, who declined to be named, had reservations about reviews being announced soon after a case concludes in court.

“When the Government says these things, it ties our hands,” he said.

A former prosecutor, who wanted to remain anonymous, said that while public perception is a “relevant” concern, it “must not be the overriding consideration”.

“Otherwise we may run the risk of undermining the rule of law with mob justice ... In my view, it would help if the AGC engages the public more actively and explains its decisions,” said the lawyer, who is now practising in a private firm.

“This way, concerns of bowing to political pressure of public opinion would be allayed to some degree.”

Lawyers TODAY interviewed agreed there was nothing wrong with public uproar leading to legislative reviews.

Mr Sunil Sudheesan, president of the Association of Criminal Lawyers of Singapore, said: “The Government ultimately is a servant of the people. And if people are legitimately outraged (over a particular court sentence), then it should be of concern to the Government.”

He added that the Ministry of Law reviews a whole host of laws, noting “it just happens there has been a number of high profile cases lately”.

Legislative reviews are also a “product” of a more vocal and involved citizenry, said Mr Sudheesan. “I hope and trust that the engagement between the authorities and the public carries on for a long time ... The public should continue to speak up.”

 

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/penalties-crime-must-reflect-public-opinion-shanmugam

[Victor68]

I will attempt to explain.

 

Ongoing trial cannot comment. After the trial, apologise is fair and was done. How else would you want it?

 

I am not CHC member but from their website - i can see why they grow. One reason: sense of community. They are just people linking up with people knowing each other over years. People bond - hard to leave.

 

Theology emphasis may be wrong but this is debatable - if one lean on the Bible, as is set out in the CHC website - the main Christian tenets are there. Traditional churches style is guilt-tripping depending on personal experience -how right is that?

 

Of course, some people are just blind-leader-faith. But same in any religion.

 

Key thing - we do not know the hearts of the people - which is the "do not judge" bible line. So hard to comment.

 

This is why christians are divided on response, outsiders are puzzled, and you are curious. Hahaha

 

This is where the authorities have to act to ensure such wrong teachings are stopped. What is wrong must be acknowledged by the same people that preach the same faith to be effective. Leaders of the same faith are obliged to make their stand clearly known. Isn't it an essential part of their preaching?

 

We want people to know how to question and not simply follow blindly. Aren't extremists the result of blind following?

 

[Kusje]

This is where the authorities have to act to ensure such wrong teachings are stopped. What is wrong must be acknowledged by the same people that preach the same faith to be effective. Leaders of the same faith are obliged to make their stand clearly known. Isn't it an essential part of their preaching?

 

We want people to know how to question and not simply follow blindly. Aren't extremists the result of blind following?

 

So who determines what is considered wrong teaching? There is no single belief in a religion as there can be multiple of denominations with different interpretations of the religious text.

[Tonyng]

This is where the authorities have to act to ensure such wrong teachings are stopped. What is wrong must be acknowledged by the same people that preach the same faith to be effective. Leaders of the same faith are obliged to make their stand clearly known. Isn't it an essential part of their preaching?

 

We want people to know how to question and not simply follow blindly. Aren't extremists the result of blind following?

 

Religious matters, like politics, are interpretative-varied, contextual and polarising - perfectly good people (and leaders) can take completely opposite stands. Plus practitioners are snaky and shift positions - hard to pin down.

 

Prosperity gospel falls nicely into this tricky basket - what precrime can you charge hong kee with?

 

Gov no choice then will intervene.

[Victor68]

So who determines what is considered wrong teaching? There is no single belief in a religion as there can be multiple of denominations with different interpretations of the religious text.

If we use CHC case. the fact that the leaders are charged and convicted, their teaching is wrong. So, we want to send this message to all that they should not just donate without questioning for its cause.

[Victor68]

Religious matters, like politics, are interpretative-varied, contextual and polarising - perfectly good people (and leaders) can take completely opposite stands. Plus practitioners are snaky and shift positions - hard to pin down.

 

Prosperity gospel falls nicely into this tricky basket - what precrime can you charge hong kee with?

 

Gov no choice then will intervene.

Fully agree. that is why we cannot afford such nonsense here. I fully support government intervention.

[Jman888]

If we use CHC case. the fact that the leaders are charged and convicted, their teaching is wrong. So, we want to send this message to all that they should not just donate without questioning for its cause.

how wrong can it be if you have more than 20,000 followers/believers?

[Kusje]

If we use CHC case. the fact that the leaders are charged and convicted, their teaching is wrong. So, we want to send this message to all that they should not just donate without questioning for its cause.

 

They are not convicted for having the wrong teachings leh. Their round-tripping has nothing to do with their teachings so don't confuse the 2. 

Fully agree. that is why we cannot afford such nonsense here. I fully support government intervention.

 

Are you sure you understood what he said 100% and still fully support govt intervention? He's saying that govt has no practical means of doing so.

[Wt_know]

another Kong kena jialat for CBT ... the punishment is too harsh?

Ex-StarHub salesperson jailed 17 months for misappropriating iPhones and assaulting taxi driver

Edited April 25, 2017 by Wt_know

[Kusje]

how wrong can it be if you have more than 20,000 followers/believers?

 

Plenty wrong. Since when is number of followers a measure of how right anyone is?

 

All of the major religions have opposing beliefs and millions or even billions of followers. They can't all be right can they?