[Vextan]

i can understand why many support the strike this time around. But i would venture a guess to say that people support it only because their daily lives are not being affected now. If the strike had caused the public transport system to come to a stand still, will people still support? if the strike happened in the healthcare sector, will people still support? If the strike happened in the waste sector, and no one clears all your trash everywhere, will people still support?

 

Yes, the drivers have their reasons for the strike. But 2 wrongs do not make a right.

good point. Like.

[Lightbringer]

you believed the reasons?

 

its just a convenient and lame excuse to increase fares. smrt is so profitable that a mere increase like this won't hurt their pockets. they can even afford to pay its CEO a staggering 1.85mil a year. you think the hike is justified?? public tpt is for the people. maximising profits to the best they can shouldn't be the agenda. its actually people who support a dominant one party pap rule that is causing all these nonsense.

 

Pal, is it still not clear that Manmaster is a member of the official PAP Internet Brigade? I don't make such claims lightly but a cursory scan of his posting history, plus his continued toeing of the party lie and repeating of trite, oft-repeated arguments by party members should make it pretty clear and apparent what his intentions here are all about.

[Manmaster]

Pal, is it still not clear that Manmaster is a member of the official PAP Internet Brigade? I don't make such claims lightly but a cursory scan of his posting history, plus his continued toeing of the party lie and repeating of trite, oft-repeated arguments by party members should make it pretty clear and apparent what his intentions here are all about.

 

cos i'm still standing on the same ground....no shift in my arguments. FYI, i didn't vote for the ruling party. I do what's best for SG, not what's best for the ruling govt. Encouraging strike is not in the interest of SG, that's why I'm dead against it. I don't care the strike is against SMRT or SGH. As long as it's a strike against essential public services or other businesses, i'll be against it. We must not create a bad business sentiment in SG where businessmen will think of shifting out of SG. This will affect our survival. When companies start to shift out, we're finished.

[Lightbringer]

I would like to say that the quality of MODERATION here is a joke. Biased, in-transparent and completely arbitrary; subject to the whims of a few, with no proper framework in place, or explanations given.

 

Warnings and yellow cards given for "being rude to others" and "multiple complaints"? I seriously LOL-ed at the juvenile and unprofessional quality of the moderation in place here.

 

Kratoschumaucer, you're a joke and without the moral courage to make proper judgement calls in the face of popular pressure. Furthermore, you do not have the integrity to clarify your stance, nor do you have the capacity or courage to properly explain the judgement calls you've made. You're merely a tool and blunt one at that, and a worm of an individual. How's that for being rude eh?

 

Also, the intellectual quality of many folks, not to mention character-wise, is another joke. Like another forummer succinctly pointed out, most people here lack the capacity or capability do undertake any serious thinking or reading of any sort. Instead they just go off on mindless rants and repeat the clich

Edited December 7, 2012 by Lightbringer

[CKP]

Just look at Apple, Apple is shifting 1 production line back to US. Why? There are 2 main reasons for this move. Minimum wage in China & strikes at foxconn. Foxconn will lose 1 production line in china and is also planning to set up more production lines in US. This will definitely cause more job losses in china as foxconn will hire less china workers. When investors start to view SG as an unstable economy, businesses will start to shift out. Is that what you want for SG?

 

 

The above is classic example of citing irrelevant examples to support your argument.

 

 

A There are many reasons for some manufacturing shifting back to the US:

 

1. US Manufactures found they lost control of the foundation of the manufacturing process.

They found out there are many hidden costs to this setup

 

2. US manufacturers have also made strides through

Edited December 7, 2012 by CKP

[Lightbringer]

Interesting analysis, but a few points:

 

1) Inflation is a function of price changes and nominal (dollar) wage changes. When price changes outpace nominal (dollar) wage changes, inflation occurs. When wage changes outpace price changes, deflation occurs. These 3 are inter-linked and cannot be detached independently from each other. So while worries about inflation increasingly persistently might have influenced increases in nominal (dollar) wages, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. In a controlled economy like China, this can be entirely attributed to policy direction as you've correctly pointed out. But to say inflation causes higher nominal wages; not strictly accurate, as higher nominal wages do not necessarily follows an increase in inflation. Depending on monetary policy, an inflationary spiral whereby inflation and nominal wages continue increasing in tandem at an accelerating rate, and real wages (purchasing power) stagnates or decreases.

 

2) Shale gas has seen the price of NG in USA drop drastically. NG in Europe is now roughly 4x that of Henry Hub Prices and in Asia (where long-term GSAs dominates), roughly 8x more. Therefore it is interesting to note that together with increasing automation and improvements in technology, USA actually is starting to exhibit significant comparative advantage in manufacturing and industrial activities in the global marketplace, and might actually become the manufacturing hub of the world in the near future.

 

3) You're a very patient man. Kudos to you.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Lightbringer

[Darryn]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

 

[Manmaster]

I would like to say that the quality of MODERATION here is a joke. Biased, in-transparent and completely arbitrary; subject to the whims of a few, with no proper framework in place, or explanations given.

 

Warnings and yellow cards given for "being rude to others" and "multiple complaints"? I seriously LOL-ed at the juvenile and unprofessional quality of the moderation in place here.

 

Kratoschumaucer, you're a joke and without the moral courage to make proper judgement calls in the face of popular pressure. Furthermore, you do not have the integrity to clarify your stance, nor do you have the capacity or courage to properly explain the judgement calls you've made. You're merely a tool and blunt one at that, and a worm of an individual. How's that for being rude eh?

 

Also, the intellectual quality of many folks, not to mention character-wise, is another joke. Like another forummer succinctly pointed out, most people here lack the capacity or capability do undertake any serious thinking or reading of any sort. Instead they just go off on mindless rants and repeat the clich

[Acemundo]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

 

 

"facebook like"

[Darryn]

Labour conflicts are common phenomena and they happened for all sorts of reasons but they must not be escalated into strikes. Which country doesn't have labour conflicts? If u know a company is a bad employer, don't work there. If u choose to work there, don't create strike which is bad for SG. A worker can't impose his own belief on a company by going on strike as strike is a national issue, not company specific anymore.

 

Bus drivers' strike is a matter as it's a national issue, not company specific anymore. We can't tell SMRT how to run its businesses as we're outsiders. I don't know what SDP is trying to do by trying to interfere in the business operations of SMRT. China also can't tell foxconn how to run its businesses too. I'll be pissed if someone outside the company wants to interfere in my business operations.

 

So you're saying (and stepping outside the construct of the SMRT situation) that we should just accept bullying and exploitation? That an employer taking advantage of the less educated and less powerful is ok?

 

That we should just "shut-up" so long as the boss makes a profit all is fair?

 

[Lightbringer]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

 

That's a good one. Weight the costs of providing regular wage increases and proper welfare against the costs of potential industrial action. A win-win situation that preserves our humanity can be eked out that way.

 

In all of history, every form of slavery and indentured labour has never ended well for both parties. Yet it seems, we human beings never learn.

[Manmaster]

Interesting analysis, but a few points:

 

1) Inflation is a function of price changes and nominal (dollar) wage changes. When price changes outpace nominal (dollar) wage changes, inflation occurs. When wage changes outpace price changes, deflation occurs. These 3 are inter-linked and cannot be detached independently from each other. So while worries about inflation increasingly persistently might have influenced increases in nominal (dollar) wages, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. In a controlled economy like China, this can be entirely attributed to policy direction as you've correctly pointed out. But to say inflation causes higher nominal wages; not strictly accurate, as higher nominal wages do not necessarily follows an increase in inflation. Depending on monetary policy, an inflationary spiral whereby inflation and nominal wages continue increasing in tandem at an accelerating rate, and real wages (purchasing power) stagnates or decreases.

 

2) Shale gas has seen the price of NG in USA drop drastically. NG in Europe is now roughly 4x that of Henry Hub Prices and in Asia (where long-term GSAs dominates), roughly 8x more. Therefore it is interesting to note that together with increasing automation and improvements in technology, USA actually is starting to exhibit significant comparative advantage in manufacturing and industrial activities in the global marketplace, and might actually become the manufacturing hub of the world in the near future.

 

3) You're a very patient man. Kudos to you.

 

I know my economics. I studied it....demand & supply, j-curve all the way to international economics. Your definition of deflation is weird. wage changes outpace price changes? don't tell me only wages affect inflation or deflation? Anyway, i'm not here to debate on economic.

 

What i'm trying to put across is company specific issues must not be escalated into national issues like strikes. There's bad employers everywhere but that is definitely not a reason for strike. This vincent is trying to incite, imply or encourage strikes. He just wanted to bring down the ruling party at the expense of SG. I will vote for WP or other party but not SDP. Thank god SDP is not in my constituency. If i've to vote between PAP & SDP, the answer is obvious for me.

 

 

[Joseph22]

Just look at Apple, Apple is shifting 1 production line back to US. Why? There are 2 main reasons for this move. Minimum wage in China & strikes at foxconn. Foxconn will lose 1 production line in china and is also planning to set up more production lines in US. This will definitely cause more job losses in china as foxconn will hire less china workers. When investors start to view SG as an unstable economy, businesses will start to shift out. Is that what you want for SG?

its more due to USA people are buying more and more make in US products and not due to china Strike.

[Lightbringer]

I don't debate with trolls or IB's members.

 

I know what you're doing though; persistently replying to messages that I've posted to other members in the hope of derailing the discussion that is going on and bringing it down to your level of scum.

 

Nice try, but it ain't gonna happen with me. Now go play with yourself in a corner

[Acemundo]

What i'm trying to put across is company specific issues must not be escalated into national issues like strikes. There's bad employers everywhere but that is definitely not a reason for strike.

 

you think these lowly educated driver have sufficient vision and control to keep it at company level and not escalate to national level?

 

and then so any workers in essential public service like transport (despite being owned by corporates) are barred from any form of protest because theirs will always be construed as national level type of protests?

[Sabian]

its more due to USA people are buying more and more make in US products and not due to china Strike.

[laugh]

[Joseph22]

[laugh]

actually i didnt realise CKP reply. i no time today to type long post...

his reply is better. but basically, a lot of company in USA are moving towards selling their own country made product and more and more american are looking at buying MIA item liao. Even their largest Mart (forgot what mart liao) are increasing their MIA product while reducing MIC products.

[Acemundo]

You could also make the argument that the Foxconn strikes are an example of how bullying, and exploitation is not sustainable in the long run as people rebel, causing you delays and problems.

 

It's all a matter of your perspective!

i have got a first hand experience to share why my company pulled out/closed down our Suzhou manufacturing plant facility.

 

simple reason costs have risen too high in China while quality of labour/facilities has not kept pace.

 

when we closed down though, the experience of dealign with the china workers is admittedly not pleasant. but heck, it wasn't this reason that prompted us to close down. if this was the consideration, we would rather continue operating because we do not have to deal with unruly workers.