COE solutions??

[Mllcg]

You think so, people will find other reasons to justify car ownership, if you look into even this thread, most of the argument to own a car isn't even strong. The occasional use of car can be mostly covered by taxi or rent a car.

 

If you look at the accident rates & the average claims, there is much more than a few blacksheeps, its pretty widespread. You can see it everyday when you drive, poor, inconsiderate, red lights beaters & aggressive drivers are hardly rare occuarances.

 

Also, how do insurance company identity who are the backsheeps? People who get into accident already have to pay a higher premium. If they classified more throughly, it can be damn prejudice, which is another problem. The only thing that can maybe check is accident rate & if an individual repeatedly break traffic rules.

 

It hard to blame insurance company really. If want to blame, blame the backsheeps you mention.

im in tokyo now.. and i dare say if our transport system is like here, i wont drive anymore...

 

each station has many exits and each exit brings u to almost all buildings in each area...

 

not to mention punctuality

 

its also cheap by japanese standards

Edited December 27, 2012 by Mllcg

[Kiadaw]

Some things you guys need to understand,

 

Its is not the responsibility of the government to ensure everyone who inspired to have a car, to be able to do so.

 

It is however the Government duty to ensure the road condition is good, & the traffic is smooth.

 

It is their responsibility that people can get from point to point safety, without much unnecessary delay, & affordable to the masses.

 

If you think about these point, making car affordable to the masses are far far in the list of priority of them. Your time is better spend thinking of solutions to ensure the majority of people can get point to point without delay & conveniently, especially for elderly & people with walking difficulties. Maybe if the idea is good, you can submit to government & they will listen.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Kiadaw

[Alechi]

I don't really know what changes will help

 

But I know that for suggestions like

 

1) lower car loan percentage

2) COE no loan allowed

 

This is not going to help make cars more affordable . Many of you think these changes will drive out the marginal owners, but the truth is that it will just benefit the rich

 

To some of you, you think car price of $100k to 200k is so amazing. The truth is that there are more than enough people who can pay this amount upfront in cash without a loan

 

It will be the mass market that will be left out with such rules

 

In big countries where point A to point B can take hours, I would say car is a necessity. In Singapore, it should be a luxury and treated as such. Why bluff ourselves that it is a necessity. ?!

 

Then screw ppl up by giving 100% loan etc. Lower loan % should be the way in terms of financial prudence and helping reduce COE price and cars on road.

[Myxilplix]

Two problems,

 

1) how do you fix the COE prices? It is not that simple. Usually prices is dictated by the market but if you remove that, you must find some way to peg the price right?

 

2) if the price is set at $25k, based on today's price, quite a lot of people will cheong and queue. So how to decide who comes first??? Is it an online, or physical queue? If too many people, it ends up like balloting.

 

1) That's the million dollar question. Somewhere between the lows and highs that we have seen? Between 25-50k for Cat A, 50-100k for Cat B? Cannot be too low or else will get flooded, but too high is political suicide (on the other hand the queues will be shorter).

 

2) Submit application and payment at LTA. First come, first served. Might be long queue at the start but should get sorted out after a few weeks at most, Singaporeans very good at queuing anyway. This relates to the pegged price levels. Don't forget have to pay for the COE upon submitting application, better have the money at hand not just suka suka take queue number and fill out form.

[Ben5266]

You pay someone to queue also must wait same amount of time as compared applying for yourself. If you want to pay someone ahead of you in the queue, you need to find those people first. If the COE non-transferable, you also gonna pay for the car and have it registered under someone else's name as well, then subsequently do a transfer of ownership? How many people would actually pay a premium for this, when you can just apply for a queue number yourself?

The queue will be 5 million long.

When it is near impossible to get a car, anything also can as long as I got to drive a car.

 

 

Nice try.

[Galantspeedz]

You pay someone to queue also must wait same amount of time as compared applying for yourself. If you want to pay someone ahead of you in the queue, you need to find those people first. If the COE non-transferable, you also gonna pay for the car and have it registered under someone else's name as well, then subsequently do a transfer of ownership? How many people would actually pay a premium for this, when you can just apply for a queue number yourself?

 

my advise is go find out how some private rental syndicate works.

 

 

[Galantspeedz]

im in tokyo now.. and i dare say if our transport system is like here, i wont drive anymore...

 

each station has many exits and each exit brings u to almost all buildings in each area...

 

not to mention punctuality

 

its also cheap by japanese standards

 

you go tourist area leh

[Myxilplix]

my advise is go find out how some private rental syndicate works.

 

Can you advise? Private syndicates and black market operators have been mentioned in a few posts already, what's up with that?

[Atonchia]

Heard the discussion on 938 live this morning.

Some of the listeners were supporting the the entitlement based on need rather than want, want to have household restriction, others wanted restriction on the financing part, limit the loan tenure, minimum down payment then when Barathi ask the listeners whether they truly need the usage, not many can really give convincing answer. Some said give subsidies to those truly in need.

 

But how to define need compare to want? Kids? Elderly?

I can't really understand the part about on elderly. Almost everyone can say they have an elderly at home. Given the aging population now and in future, every 2.5 working person will support an elderly by 2030. So if the population is 7million / 3.5 there can be a max of 2million cars on the road as having an elderly entitles one to own a car at subsidised rate?

 

I would love to receive subsidy for owning a car, but this logic is very flawed and why should subsidy be given to car ownership? I would rather see subsidies going to those people truly in financial difficulties when taking public transport can be financially draining to their expenses.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Atonchia

[Cerano]

Heard the discussion on 938 live this morning.

Some of the listeners were supporting the the entitlement based on need rather than want, want to have household restriction, others wanted restriction on the financing part, limit the loan tenure, minimum down payment then when Barathi ask the listeners whether they truly need the usage, not many can really give convincing answer. Some said give subsidies to those truly in need.

 

But how to define need compare to want? Kids? Elderly?

I can't really understand the part about on elderly. Almost everyone can say they have an elderly at home. Given the aging population now and in future, every 2.5 working person will support an elderly by 2030. So if the population is 7million / 3.5 there can be a max of 2million cars on the road as having an elderly entitles one to own a car at subsidised rate?

 

I would love to receive subsidy for owning a car, but this logic is very flawed and why should subsidy be given to car ownership? I would rather see subsidies going to those people truly in financial difficulties when taking public transport can be financially draining to their expenses.

 

many policies are questionable but just designed to please the populace. Think of how they subsidise petrol up north in malaysia. Not only lack of taxation but subsidy somemore.

 

But we have to also consider people who make a living with their cars eg. salesmen property agents. These are the ones being squeezed out too

[Atonchia]

many policies are questionable but just designed to please the populace. Think of how they subsidise petrol up north in malaysia. Not only lack of taxation but subsidy somemore.

 

But we have to also consider people who make a living with their cars eg. salesmen property agents. These are the ones being squeezed out too

 

That is also scary part.

Imagine I am going to retire soon, then no job, I go get a property/insurance agent licence, entitles me to a car at subsidise rate, then happy I work not happy don't work while just maintaining sufficient sales quota to meet the maintenance of the professional license.

 

Then again if the population is 7 million, and one of of 3.5 is retired and have the same thinking in the above scenario, I would certainly do that to get subsidy in the future. Quite a good way to retire if my nesting fund cannot meet the inflation rate in 25 years time.

 

But then on the other side, the working adults paying tax to support the subsidies for everything will suffocate.

Don't want to overburden my kids with high taxation in future. Now EC already 2 million...... I can imagine a 1.5mil 4rm HDB in 25yrs time as cheap.

[Thaiyotakamli]

Also can, but that means no credit cannot use car?

Some people will say i can pay once I am paid at end of month... discriminate against low income.

What about emergency etc?

 

1001 reasons why this won't work due to objections.

If you ask me, i think its simple and straight forward.

then u can see hundreds of car daily nvr move in expressway!

[Thaiyotakamli]

best thing is to let min dp 50% so everyone must be able to afford half of their car price. not any tom dick harry can buy car

[Rezorn86]

now coe is like the day in 1994, when election coming hehe sure dip 50% de....

[Yhm]

Just keep it status quo. It's not the best system but neither it's the worse. Since SG is so small, a car is a want not a need. A high COE will make ppl think twice whether a car is a need or a want. As a fellow driver, I rather have sky high COE and have a smooth drive to work everyday than to have low COE and sit in a jam.

 

It might sound very elitist but this is the way society operates.

[Happily1986]

I also find it perplexing how the coe price can rise to so high and be sustained at this level, given the disparity between the middle income group's purchasing power and the coe price. i understand in singapore there are a significant group of high earners, but surely they dont buy new cars every few months right ? Or is the economy really so rosy judging from the strong demand ?

 

I am not going to suggest any tweak to the coe but my simple wish is that the revenue from coe is channeled to subsidising \improving public transport. this will then at least provide a viable option from the high cost of car ownership.

 

you neglect to note that the amount of COEs issued as of now is drastically lesser as compared to the "affordable" COE period around 400 cf to nearly 2000 circa 2009~2010. It is probably debatable whether car ownership has reached saturation point because our resident population is on a steady incline hence the system is at an unsteady state. I like to think that even if we consider only individuals seeking replacements for their existing cars, it is probably safe to assume that there are enough such individuals to sustain the demand given that the monthly quota is now so paltry.

[Jman888]

no wonder they Singaporean like queuing

 

cut queue how? pay people to queue? buy queue number? when come your number can't afford how?

 

How about instead of a balloting system, a queue number system is implemented with fixed COE prices(eg. 25k Cat A, 50k Cat B or 50k/75k or more or less)? That way there is no luck of the draw, just that you have to wait for your turn to get your COE depending on how many people are ahead of you in the queue and the quota of COEs released every two weeks. Payment for COE made upfront during application/issuance of queue number. Same deal as before, COE non-transferable, application can be cancelled for refund based on appeal, with admin fees applicable.

 

Cannot tahan the wait? Go for used car lor. People wanna make quick profit by onselling new cars? Let them, see how much the market is willing to support and how much more people are willing to pay for a 2nd hand car as compared to waiting for a new car, especially in an environment where a pegged COE rate keeps car prices stable with minimal chance of the price jumping 10-20k in a few months (not like the mad scramble we've been having because of upcoming quota cuts). Plus the people looking to make a profit by onselling will also have to wait in queue like everyone else. On the financing side banks will not loan as much for a 2nd hand car as compared to new(for those high loan people), so how much cash you willing to fork out for 2nd hand car vs new (exact same model)? Maybe for higher end rare models you might be able to turn a profit, but i doubt so for b&b cars. But the target demographic for high end models might not be so interested in used cars anyway (look at all the low mileage exotic cars for sale, but the rich people rather go for new ones).

 

Everybody must queue, fair or not? First come, first served.

 

Add to this an increase in usage charges like some others have been suggesting, and perhaps tweaking the COE categories as well.

 

[Brugge]

In my opinion, there is no need to tweak the COE system for now. Yes, the successful bidding price for COE is at all time for Cat A, but Cat B is still lower than at end 1994 early 1995 (above 100k iirc). The OTR car prices in 1994/1995 were about the same as car price now. Imagine having to pay $120k for a Toyota Corolla in 1994/1995, as compare to paying the same amount now for a similar car? In comparison, I do not think that car price today is expensive (relative to 1994/1995). That is why the demand is still healthy.

 

When the time comes for me to scrap my car (2018), I shall see if I can still afford to drive. If not, go BMW. That's life.