Legal question

[Sp4wn]

Yes I believe Singapore's contract law allows implied contract. Please check with a lawyer to verify your recourse.

 

i agree. I remember reading a case where the tenant claimed there is no tenancy agreement with the landlord, but they kept paying the rental for a few more years after the TA expired, and the judge came to the conclusion that there was indeed an implied contract, and in TS case, you paid money for goods/services rendered.

 

with that being said, if you want to end on a good note, just ask them what is their termination policy.

 

secondly, you can always tell them you need the copies because of XYZ reason, and if such documents are not provided within X amount of days, it will be very difficult to carry on business with them, and that yours is simply a reasonable request to ask for copies.

 

if in doubt, escalate to their upper management.

 

if you are dealing with the boss, then something is not right somewhere.

[Jamesc]

Don't bother with these high price lawyers,

 

you get better advice in MCF and for free. 

 

If someone gave me something

 

without making me sign it,

 

money, equipment, gold bars etc

 

I won't be giving it back as there

 

is no proof that I received it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Jamesc

[Beehive3783]

How's this for a plot twist:

 

The leasing company probably doesn't even have the documents you requested, and they are just hoping you continue to rent the equipment while they play dumb as they struggle to keep their business afloat

 

 

My question relates to whether there is an implied contract for those equipments that I did not sign any physical contract.

If there is, I guess any contractual terms would follow as per those that are set in black and white.

The situation now is most are without any signed contracts.

 

There's still room to resolve la. No need to waste money consulting a lawyer.

 

I feel ts should just consult a lawyer about the matter.

 

[Jungus]

A contract does not have to be written. It can also be oral, or even established by conduct. 

 

We can safely say you have a contract(s) with the leasing company. 

 

The real issue is what are the terms governing termination of the lease. If there is a written contract you look at the document for the terms. If it is only oral contract you have to rely on what was agreed. If none agreed or in dispute then such terms can be implied into the contract by usual industry standards. I suppose a useful lead in this regard will be whatever other leasing document you still have with you, never mind wrong company details or whatever. Chances are, the termination clause will be the same even in the missing documents. You can then proceed on the basis of this information.

 

And chances are, the company too no longer has the missing contracts - never executed? - which probably explains why they playing so hardball with you now! 

 

Finally, write a formal letter to the company, informing them you are reviewing your leasing policies and therefore require a copy(s) of the contracts. Offer to pay them any reasonable charges for the documents. If they fail to respond reasonably then give them a month's notice (or whatever reasonable period) and terminate the contracts. And tell them to remove their equipment!

[Adrianli]

You working at AHTC???

 

Nope.

 

Working for a AHTS company.

[Acemundo]

i think there is implied contract but do note that there are many variables open to contest in the absence of written contract.  the monthly rent may be implied from the rent you have paid thus far but still if you want to get out of it there's no stopping you from throwing in variables to help you get out of it.  for example, you may argue that the rent was paid for relatively new equipment and now that the equipment is getting old, this implied contract no longer should relevant.

 

end of day, i think instead of working from the means (whether there is implied contract or to get out of implied contract) perspective, it would be better to work from the ends perspective (what you want to achieve in the end).  for example, if you want to terminate the contract, just send them a letter to take back the equipment as your company is not going to lease it anymore.  if they argued there is a contract, you can start telling them there isn't and their equipment have gotten old and not suitable for your company needs and there is nothing in black and white that binds your company.  maybe if you do so, they will start digging for whatever contracts or email to show you.  by then you respond accordingly.

[Piyopico]

A contract does not have to be written. It can also be oral, or even established by conduct.

 

We can safely say you have a contract(s) with the leasing company.

 

The real issue is what are the terms governing termination of the lease. If there is a written contract you look at the document for the terms. If it is only oral contract you have to rely on what was agreed. If none agreed or in dispute then such terms can be implied into the contract by usual industry standards. I suppose a useful lead in this regard will be whatever other leasing document you still have with you, never mind wrong company details or whatever. Chances are, the termination clause will be the same even in the missing documents. You can then proceed on the basis of this information.

 

And chances are, the company too no longer has the missing contracts - never executed? - which probably explains why they playing so hardball with you now!

 

Finally, write a formal letter to the company, informing them you are reviewing your leasing policies and therefore require a copy(s) of the contracts. Offer to pay them any reasonable charges for the documents. If they fail to respond reasonably then give them a month's notice (or whatever reasonable period) and terminate the contracts. And tell them to remove their equipment!

 

I believe they do not have any contracts cos we did not sign any.

 

If I take the legal route, it will probably end up costing both sides huge legal fees and frankly it does not measure up monetary wise.

 

They are already refusing to take back equipments that are leased to us for a few months, saying the lease is 3 years.

 

Regards to the provision of "contracts", they will only provide if our auditors or lawyers request for it in writing. If contracts are implied, I guess they can only provide details of lease period, contract number etc to an "implied contract".

[Piyopico]

i think there is implied contract but do note that there are many variables open to contest in the absence of written contract. the monthly rent may be implied from the rent you have paid thus far but still if you want to get out of it there's no stopping you from throwing in variables to help you get out of it. for example, you may argue that the rent was paid for relatively new equipment and now that the equipment is getting old, this implied contract no longer should relevant.

 

end of day, i think instead of working from the means (whether there is implied contract or to get out of implied contract) perspective, it would be better to work from the ends perspective (what you want to achieve in the end). for example, if you want to terminate the contract, just send them a letter to take back the equipment as your company is not going to lease it anymore. if they argued there is a contract, you can start telling them there isn't and their equipment have gotten old and not suitable for your company needs and there is nothing in black and white that binds your company. maybe if you do so, they will start digging for whatever contracts or email to show you. by then you respond accordingly.

Actually my intention is really to get a definitive answer to the lease terms so that I can provide the necessary notice to cancel one month before expiry.

 

The whole issue is made worse by their accounts invoicing wrongly or even a year later, causing us to backtrack and pay for these invoices.

 

New immigrant boss, very difficult. They lost a lot of customers in the past year. So yes, they will cling to any implied contracts.

[Kusje]

I believe they do not have any contracts cos we did not sign any.

 

If I take the legal route, it will probably end up costing both sides huge legal fees and frankly it does not measure up monetary wise.

 

They are already refusing to take back equipments that are leased to us for a few months, saying the lease is 3 years.

 

Regards to the provision of "contracts", they will only provide if our auditors or lawyers request for it in writing. If contracts are implied, I guess they can only provide details of lease period, contract number etc to an "implied contract".

 

Dun pay them for a few months. See if they can still be so smug or not.

 

When they demand for payment, you demand for the 3 year contract lor.

Actually my intention is really to get a definitive answer to the lease terms so that I can provide the necessary notice to cancel one month before expiry.

 

The whole issue is made worse by their accounts invoicing wrongly or even a year later, causing us to backtrack and pay for these invoices.

 

New immigrant boss, very difficult. They lost a lot of customers in the past year. So yes, they will cling to any implied contracts.

 

How can there be an implied duration in the contract unless every single contract you've signed with them is for 3 years or every single lease in your industry is for a min of 3 years?

 

I can say that there is an implied lease (because you took my equipment) and an implied rent (that's what you've been paying me every month) but duration?!

[Piyopico]

Dun pay them for a few months. See if they can still be so smug or not.

 

When they demand for payment, you demand for the 3 year contract lor.

 

 

How can there be an implied duration in the contract unless every single contract you've signed with them is for 3 years or every single lease in your industry is for a min of 3 years?

 

I can say that there is an implied lease (because you took my equipment) and an implied rent (that's what you've been paying me every month) but duration?!

Implied lease is the same cos there will be contractual terms in it.

Equipments with contracts do run for 3 years.

[Vid]

Actually my intention is really to get a definitive answer to the lease terms so that I can provide the necessary notice to cancel one month before expiry.

 

The whole issue is made worse by their accounts invoicing wrongly or even a year later, causing us to backtrack and pay for these invoices.

 

New immigrant boss, very difficult. They lost a lot of customers in the past year. So yes, they will cling to any implied contracts.

 

 

I know you want to stay on the good side but sometimes if you need to get something done, then just do it.

 

Write in to the company. Indicate that you are giving 1 month notice. Or as many months as you deem fit. Must put this line... "As a gesture of goodwill, we will continue for the xx months."

 

Implied contract usually does not have duration. Length usually in black and white. The company will not die die argue you still have how many many months contract when they do not have it in b/w. That company also won't have money to engage in lengthy legal battle. Don't worry.

 

 

[Jungus]

I believe they do not have any contracts cos we did not sign any.

 

If I take the legal route, it will probably end up costing both sides huge legal fees and frankly it does not measure up monetary wise.

 

They are already refusing to take back equipments that are leased to us for a few months, saying the lease is 3 years.

 

Regards to the provision of "contracts", they will only provide if our auditors or lawyers request for it in writing. If contracts are implied, I guess they can only provide details of lease period, contract number etc to an "implied contract".

 

 

As I said earlier, there is certainly a contract(s) in existence. Not sure what you guys mean by 'implied contract'...

 

The question is: what termination clause can be implied to the contract? In the absence of any written or oral terms such a clause has to be implied, either by industry norms or conduct, ie your other contracts with the party. But unless we are talking about some special equipment this is a somewhat weak argument. Meaning: court will be slow to infer such implied terms to a contract.

 

As for their refusal to provide copies, this is truly absurd! Write and request. Surely, if any term should be implied to a contract, the provision of a copy of it should it be requested should be it! If they refuse threaten to terminate! Don't forget, this will be useful evidence of reasonable conduct on your part, just in case it becomes necessary...

 

Frankly, if they are gonna be such a*holes about it, you should just terminate all the leases with no written contract and take your chances. Remember, the burden of proving a contract with a fixed term will be on them!

 

Anyway, said enough on this. Better get back to work.

 

Good luck!

[Galantspeedz]

Does it cost a lot to ask lawyer to write to them to request for the contract?

 

If not a lot, then just get lawyer to request lor... since they say they will abide if lawyer requests

[SuPerBoRed]

Dun pay them for a few months. See if they can still be so smug or not.

 

When they demand for payment, you demand for the 3 year contract lor.

 

 

yea .. i agree with this.. wats the implications of non-payment??  

 

or juz send them a request to remove the equipment? say contract over at your side. to proof otherwise.. show your copy.  

[Piyopico]

Does it cost a lot to ask lawyer to write to them to request for the contract?

 

If not a lot, then just get lawyer to request lor... since they say they will abide if lawyer requests

Dunnoe how much it costs. Have not approached any lawyer.

 

How much do you guys think it will costs?

 

Estimated costs if they really sue and I have to take it to court? We are talking about 10 equipments.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Piyopico

[Galantspeedz]

Dunnoe how much it costs. Have not approached any lawyer.

 

How much do you guys think it will costs?

 

Estimated costs if they really sue and I have to take it to court? We are talking about 10 equipments.

 

call a few and ask lar... why so lazy... 

 

or maybe the issue is not important enough?

[inlinesix]

As I said earlier, there is certainly a contract(s) in existence. Not sure what you guys mean by 'implied contract'...

 

The question is: what termination clause can be implied to the contract? In the absence of any written or oral terms such a clause has to be implied, either by industry norms or conduct, ie your other contracts with the party. But unless we are talking about some special equipment this is a somewhat weak argument. Meaning: court will be slow to infer such implied terms to a contract.

 

As for their refusal to provide copies, this is truly absurd! Write and request. Surely, if any term should be implied to a contract, the provision of a copy of it should it be requested should be it! If they refuse threaten to terminate! Don't forget, this will be useful evidence of reasonable conduct on your part, just in case it becomes necessary...

 

Frankly, if they are gonna be such a*holes about it, you should just terminate all the leases with no written contract and take your chances. Remember, the burden of proving a contract with a fixed term will be on them!

 

Anyway, said enough on this. Better get back to work.

 

Good luck!

 

Simi court!

 

TS juz tell the lease company to show contractual obligation for all the backdated contract.  Otherwise, no payment made as our company SOP.

 

Leasing company will miraculously come out with an unsigned contract to be signed.

 

That's everyone advice here.

 

[Galantspeedz]

Dunnoe how much it costs. Have not approached any lawyer.

 

How much do you guys think it will costs?

 

Estimated costs if they really sue and I have to take it to court? We are talking about 10 equipments.

 

if it goes to court.... it will be costly but how much will it cost really varies

 

but now it is now about court case right?

 

They only say they will oblige to request by auditors or lawyers..... so why you think will be court case