17-year-old boy dies after falling from 4th floor of Orchard

[Fcw75]

It's not because phones are becoming slippery, it's because phones are getting bigger and bigger that it's impossible to hold with one hand securely.

[Kopites]

No lah. In US you are protected by the Good Samaritian's law.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

 

As long as you try to rescue the person and with good intentions, you cannot be sue even if you unintentionally caused the person's death...

 

Singapore? No such law but judge's digression made it hard to sue too. But local NGO like red cross is pushing for this law to pass in SG too.

I thought in Singapore as long as you carry a valid MHA certified card are safe to perform CPR. The exception is only on female casualty where you do need bystander as witness.

[Evillusion]

No lah. In US you are protected by the Good Samaritian's law.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

 

As long as you try to rescue the person and with good intentions, you cannot be sue even if you unintentionally caused the person's death...

 

Singapore? No such law but judge's digression made it hard to sue too. But local NGO like red cross is pushing for this law to pass in SG too.

But yet they are pushing 1st aiders course and aed course to us! I am comfortable with doing bandages and minor treatment but cpr and aed.....i would rather watch someone administer that treatment unless the mmr is on a young chio bu....

[Ktglfc]

Poor boy.. RIP... There's a lesson we have to teach our children. A phone is not worth your life. Let it be, get scolding from parent is still better than risking your life.

 

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/man-falls-4th-floor-orchard-gateway

 

Sad news .....

RIP, boy ....

And hope his parents will ride over this period ....

[Evillusion]

Something similar happened to me before. Luckily, I am scared of heights. Decided to get help from the security guards. Lol. But yeah, if I wasn't scared of heights, I would have probably climbed over myself to retrieve it.

just in case if you need to step on such surfaces advisable is to step on the screws or nails. Thats where the brackets or the struts is and is usually firm. Nowadays the young is rather ignorant of dangers as they are always shielded and protected by the adults especially parents and caregivers (teachers included because of duty).

[Lala81]

Not defending the person who did cpr or condemning. Just an objective statement.

 

Personally i would not in this specific situation unless I happen to be with my trauma trained friends also because of trauma and might worsen the condition but I have read before a statement on this before in a journal.

 

"If you did cpr on a trauma arrest patient he might have a slight chance of survival but if you did nothing he will confirm die. Why are you worried about worsening his injuries when your inaction means his death?"

 

Just food for thought and actually cpr can be done for trauma patients but you must be trained and you need the right equipment and your partners must also be trained.

 

Until further information is available I will just assume that the person doing the cpr is trauma trained and not just a bystander who compresses without knowing how to to it or why to do it.

 

Erm basics of BCLS right?

 

Airway

Breathing

Circulation

 

A is the worry when dealing with possible neck injuries. Provided A and B and C are not present, u can start chest compressions.

There's no need to do rescue breathing. Doesn't make a difference to outcome.

 

If the person is breathing and moaning and groaning, then don't anyhow move the person.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Lala81

[Fuelsaver]

Rip..

 

Not expecting the failing component b such material; thot was some alum cladding..

 

It's a moral dilemma when faced w such situation if one is first-aid trained but has no confidence to administer it. I'd still call for e svcs as I won't know how to assess as well as paramedics

[Lala81]

Rip..

 

Not expecting the failing component b such material; thot was some alum cladding..

 

It's a moral dilemma when faced w such situation if one is first-aid trained but has no confidence to administer it. I'd still call for e svcs as I won't know how to assess as well as paramedics

 

Confidence comes from training. Just like in anything we do. 

Unless u are a paramedic or at least an SAF medic, no normal person in public will have encountered such situations before.

 

The expectations of a good samaritan are not high. Just do the basic things right.

Call 995, assess the patient if he/she is conscious/unconscious. 

Airway

Breathing

Circulation

Do CPR (if u are trained) and get an AED attached if the person no longer has a pulse.

[Francis-jack]

RIP...phone can leads to death scary

[Fuelsaver]

Confidence comes from training. Just like in anything we do.

Unless u are a paramedic or at least an SAF medic, no normal person in public will have encountered such situations before.

 

The expectations of a good samaritan are not high. Just do the basic things right.

Call 995, assess the patient if he/she is conscious/unconscious.

Airway

Breathing

Circulation

Do CPR (if u are trained) and get an AED attached if the person no longer has a pulse.

repeated practice after training is key I think. Tks for heads up. I'll stick to the basics.0

[Philipkee]

Erm basics of BCLS right?

 

Airway

Breathing

Circulation

 

A is the worry when dealing with possible neck injuries. Provided A and B and C are not present, u can start chest compressions.

There's no need to do rescue breathing. Doesn't make a difference to outcome.

 

If the person is breathing and moaning and groaning, then don't anyhow move the person.

1.If teen was unconscious (not pronounce dead (not breathing) at the site) but breathing why did passer-by commenced CPR. They may have caused more internal injury which may have made internal bleeding worse. Eg sharp broken ribs during compression of the chest may lead the sharp edge rib bones to pierce the heart.

 

Fully agree with you but from the above post there seems to be an implication that cpr was done on a patient who did not require one. That is why I say

 

1) CPR can be done on a patient with trauma injuries but I would not do so unless the people around me are trauma trained to prevent further spinal injuries

 

2) I use the word trauma arrest or the full term is traumatic cardiac arrest meaning the heart has stopped and there is no breathing

 

3) unless there is evidence to the contrary I will assume that the person performing the cpr is trained and not a lay bystander who just keep pumping and blowing .

 

4) lastly was it written in the news that the patient was groaning and moving when cpr was performed? I only read coughed out blood but no other indication cpr was done when he was still moving and breathing. Oh and out of hospital cpr the latest trend is compression only cpr for untrained people because not many people know how to do a head tilt chin lift or modified jaw thrust and chest compressions on its own is still effective because in Singapore context the ambulance arrives relatively quickly. I use the word relatively because to the caller sometimes they expect the ambulance to teleport from fire station to scene.

 

I do agree with your following post on calling 995 with an important edition.

 

DO NOT PANIC OR ARGUE WITH THE 995 DISPATCHER. They are there to help you so if they ask questions please answer honestly and truthfully. You might not know if what the patient exhibits is conscious so the dispatcher will ask for further descriptions but don't answer yes he is conscious if you don't know what conscious means.

 

Not being condescending but many people seem to equate conscious with breathing or eyes open as opposed to being awake and responsive.

 

My two cents

Edited February 25, 2017 by Philipkee

[BanCoe]

Hope he was not doing selfies when the phone fell; 

 

Yes  as many pointed out the phones are just getting too big and the grip is not very good too and whilst taking pix's

 

I have (nearly)  dropped my phone overseas whilst trying to take selfies as we want to maxise the image and pulling out hands far far away with the finger precariously holding on the phone and trying to reach the click button (lazy to get the stick thingy)  just sharing     

 

[UncleAtas]

Should have used a dustpan to retrieve. Way much better.

[Fcw75]

Should have used a dustpan to retrieve. Way much better.

On hindsight everything can be prevented.

[Mockngbrd]

4th floor drop, give cpr no give cpr, regardless, chance of survival very low liao.

[Lala81]

I agree with you someone may have done something wrongly if they didn't assess properly.

 

But there seem to be some misconception on your part. Assuming someone is totally unconscious (even if it's a trauma patient).

 

Go down the steps.

 

Check:

"hello hello, are you ok?" If can talk/groan, no need to move down. If no response then move down the list

 

Airway to make sure it's not blocked (yes u may risk worsening a cervical spine injury if u adjust the head and neck)

Breathing - is he/she breathing? If yes, circulation is ok. If no, go down the list

Circulation - does he/she have a pulse. YES, no need to do CPR. NO, do CPR.

 

Then it comes down to 

D general survey or rest of the body

 

It doesn't matter if his torso is misshappen from multiple fractures (extreme example). U follow the order. If he has no circulation, there's no rest of the body to speak off.

 

 

1.If teen was unconscious (not pronounce dead (not breathing) at the site) but breathing why did passer-by commenced CPR. They may have caused more internal injury which may have made internal bleeding worse. Eg sharp broken ribs during compression of the chest may lead the sharp edge rib bones to pierce the heart.

Fully agree with you but from the above post there seems to be an implication that cpr was done on a patient who did not require one. That is why I say

1) CPR can be done on a patient with trauma injuries but I would not do so unless the people around me are trauma trained to prevent further spinal injuries

2) I use the word trauma arrest or the full term is traumatic cardiac arrest meaning the heart has stopped and there is no breathing

3) unless there is evidence to the contrary I will assume that the person performing the cpr is trained and not a lay bystander who just keep pumping and blowing .

4) lastly was it written in the news that the patient was groaning and moving when cpr was performed? I only read coughed out blood but no other indication cpr was done when he was still moving and breathing. Oh and out of hospital cpr the latest trend is compression only cpr for untrained people because not many people know how to do a head tilt chin lift or modified jaw thrust and chest compressions on its own is still effective because in Singapore context the ambulance arrives relatively quickly. I use the word relatively because to the caller sometimes they expect the ambulance to teleport from fire station to scene.

I do agree with your following post on calling 995 with an important edition.

DO NOT PANIC OR ARGUE WITH THE 995 DISPATCHER. They are there to help you so if they ask questions please answer honestly and truthfully. You might not know if what the patient exhibits is conscious so the dispatcher will ask for further descriptions but don't answer yes he is conscious if you don't know what conscious means.

Not being condescending but many people seem to equate conscious with breathing or eyes open as opposed to being awake and responsive.
 

 

[Lala81]

It does not mean that if someone sustain a road traffic accident, U do nothing just because u are stuck at A when he/she has no breathing/pulse.

 

Of course, caveat is that your assessment must be correct. Must be damn sure he/she has no pulse before starting CPR.

[Philipkee]

I agree with you someone may have done something wrongly if they didn't assess properly.

 

But there seem to be some misconception on your part. Assuming someone is totally unconscious (even if it's a trauma patient).

 

Go down the steps.

 

Check:

"hello hello, are you ok?" If can talk/groan, no need to move down. If no response then move down the list

 

Airway to make sure it's not blocked (yes u may risk worsening a cervical spine injury if u adjust the head and neck)

Breathing - is he/she breathing? If yes, circulation is ok. If no, go down the list

Circulation - does he/she have a pulse. YES, no need to do CPR. NO, do CPR.

 

Then it comes down to

D general survey or rest of the body

 

It doesn't matter if his torso is misshappen from multiple fractures (extreme example). U follow the order. If he has no circulation, there's no rest of the body to speak off.

3) unless there is evidence to the contrary I will assume that the person performing the cpr is trained and not a lay bystander who just keep pumping and blowing

 

Hi. Maybe you missed my point number 3 or maybe it should have been point 1. I assume the person doing cpr is trained and not a lay bystander. Trained cpr providers would have followed your steps unless the person panicked or is not really trained but maybe saw on tv (which means lay bystanders who just pump and blow).

 

I am coming from the point that the rescuer is trained and doing things correctly in sequence like you described because if he was not trained and he just started pumping and blowing without assessment then there is no need to discuss if cpr can be done on a trauma patient since an untrained bystander (or for that matter a panicked trained cpr provider) obviously should not be doing the cpr in the first place.