Flyover collapses at Upper Changi, PIE

[Neost]

Erm...... Existing structure built by this Co how?

 

The cracks are on the corbel which is a temperoary structure to hold the beam while the actual loading bearing supports are being built. Hence, once the bridge is completed, these corbel are extras. Maybe for decorative purpose only. 

 

That's my understanding thru the news. 

[Carbon82]

The cracks are on the corbel which is a temperoary structure to hold the beam while the actual loading bearing supports are being built. Hence, once the bridge is completed, these corbel are extras. Maybe for decorative purpose only. 

 

That's my understanding thru the news. 

 

May I know where you get the information from? Corbels ARE key element of a flyover (and other setup, such as for runway of overhead gantry crane), which main purpose is to support structure above it.

 

 

The photo above tells a thousand words. Corbel is NEVER a temporary structure or for decorative purpose. It has to be able to support heavy structure / load over the entire duration of operation!

PIE work site collapse: Cracks found at 11 other locations of collapsed viaduct, says LTA

 

 

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/cracks-found-at-11-other-locations-of-collapsed-viaduct-says-lta

 

 

These are very serious structural issues!!! Cracks on critical structure such as corbels make the flyover UNUSABLE. It is best to redo all the affected column before further damage to the other structurally sound column / corbel.

Erm...... Existing structure built by this Co how?

 

This questions has been in my mind since the accident happened. Now whenever I travel on TPE (the series of flyover around Seletar Aerospace Park / CTE / Yishun area), I keep praying that I can reach home safety. FYI, that whole project was undertaken by OKP (and I happened to deal with them at one point of time then).

Edited July 24, 2017 by Carbon82

[Kusje]

PIE work site collapse: Cracks found at 11 other locations of collapsed viaduct, says LTA

 

 

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/cracks-found-at-11-other-locations-of-collapsed-viaduct-says-lta

 

 

They need to bite the bullet and scrap the entire structure.

 

Rebuild from scratch rather than patch here and patch there.

[Carbon82]

The only fortunate thing about this case is that the beams collapsed now, rather than a few years down the road - it could be a few fully loaded buses dropping down!

 

Anyone watch the latest Korean drama, "Signal", now showing on channel U? I am really wondering if there are any hidden agenda and who's head will round this time...

They need to bite the bullet and scrap the entire structure.

 

Rebuild from scratch rather than patch here and patch there.

 

Don't need to start from scratch. As I have mentioned in my previous post, just rebuild those column with crack(s).

 

 

From the way you write, you seem to be from owner side. If so it is alot easy to implement what you mentioned, issue fine, stop work etc....You can stop work without worrying about LD, the most your bosses need to answer to the top management the reason for stop work which is due to safety issues and is a very valid reason.

 

When you work for main con and when everything is about progress, you will encounter many problems.

 

You can dont sign the PTW but very soon you will be replaced by someone who will sign. You can stop the work and very soon the big boss will call you regarding the SW. You can reject a poorly done RA submitted by sub and the PM will tell you to help cos project delayed

 

There will be main con which have and implement strict enforcement, but how many WSHO or safety personnel can they employ? The rest of the safety personnel can only join the other companies where safety might not be the top priority.

 

You are right that paymaster is fully responsible, so the authorities should look into this area and not coming out new requirements where the implementation is always at lower levels

 

Today they mention mandatory daily safety meeting, how effective is the daily meeting if the top management is not supportive to solve the safety issues brought up in the meeting ?

 

For malpractice in safety training, instead of going more harsh on the centres directors, they require all trainers to take a trainer ethnic course..in the first place who allow the malpractices in the centre ?

 

Let's see the new regulation where they say they will take the top management to task for safety lapses, maybe this will be the wake up call to the top management

 

I am most of the time from the owner side, fortunately. But when I am with a service provider, I adopt the same standard / practice, and legal requirement is my best backing. Anything not done in accordance to legal requirement, I will NEVER approve. And glad to say that, I have the full support from the client (project owner) too.

 

I knew that in construction industry, everyone is concern with LD, BUT if a stop work order is issued by MOM, can the owner tell MOM that the co has to pay LD for the delay and bypass MOM requirement?! I always tell my senior management, yes we may incur additional time and cost, but it will be better than been shutdown by the authorities.

 

Anyone in the right sense of mind would not want to take the risk of going to court. Share with you a story. In one of the company I worked previously, I made a recommendation to replace the existing gas extinguishing system in the plant and the MD called me to explain my points. After my presentation, he said he will consider and the proposal was on his table. Sway sway there was a fire in the plant in the following week and a worker was injured, and the first thing that MD asked me is: "Will I go to jail?"

Edited July 24, 2017 by Carbon82

[Mockngbrd]

who's head will round this time...

 

 

[Atrecord]

No la. 2010 is when my brother completed his NS - I completed mine in 2006.

 

I don't doubt that it could be better right now than in 2000 but to say that it isn't wayang is not true. So many "safety" rules still being purposely overlooked or ignored.

 

2006 i MR liao 

 

Talking about safety in SAF, i thought some things were overly kiasu/kiasi - but i'm not complaining.

 

I remember our demolition live firing. Safety cover was always 25 m under cover. Means got bunker 25 m away, everyone hide behind, and wear helmet.

 

Then one time in Ex Crescendo, there was a demolition lesson/sharing by the Thais, at the field about 50 m between the bunks and the main road. They showed some mines that they said were used by Viets in the Thiland-cambodia/Vietnam border wars... After showing us the small anti-personnel mines, one trainer took them and walked away, while other trainers continued the lesson.

 

A few mins later, we heard an explosion (not v loud as it was open ground), and turned to look. The trainer told us not to worry, the previous trainer just went to blow up all the mines!

 

That trainer was walking back, and we would see the little 'fume' from the explosion about maybe 30 m away. No bunker, no helmet, no warning...

[Playtime]

2006 i MR liao

 

Talking about safety in SAF, i thought some things were overly kiasu/kiasi - but i'm not complaining.

 

I remember our demolition live firing. Safety cover was always 25 m under cover. Means got bunker 25 m away, everyone hide behind, and wear helmet.

 

Then one time in Ex Crescendo, there was a demolition lesson/sharing by the Thais, at the field about 50 m between the bunks and the main road. They showed some mines that they said were used by Viets in the Thiland-cambodia/Vietnam border wars... After showing us the small anti-personnel mines, one trainer took them and walked away, while other trainers continued the lesson.

 

A few mins later, we heard an explosion (not v loud as it was open ground), and turned to look. The trainer told us not to worry, the previous trainer just went to blow up all the mines!

 

That trainer was walking back, and we would see the little 'fume' from the explosion about maybe 30 m away. No bunker, no helmet, no warning...

Also Thailand.

Folks want to play football in the field.

The thais had helicopters parked there, just talk talk. .. Ok .. pilots run out start engine move to another corner, machum car park shift car. . Very relax one.

[Watwheels]

I can't imagine what will happen when the viaduct becomes operational. More could have their life ended prematurely not just a poor chap from China.

 

I think this could be why things like this happen....

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/collapse-of-uncompleted-pie-viaduct-contractor-recently-fined-9030718

 

 

The project, with a contract value of more than S$94.6 million, was awarded to OKP in 2015. OKP, together with engineering firm CPG Consultants, beat three other groups which had tendered bids ranging from S$129.7 million to S$193.7 million, according to information on LTA’s website.
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/collapse-of-uncompleted-pie-viaduct-contractor-recently-fined-9030718

 

I was surprised to see the stark difference in the tender budget between this contractor vs the others. How come no one is suspicious as to why this contractor can offer such an attractive price compared to the competitors? If the media can dig out dirt on this company how is it that LTA can choose this contractor w/o reviewing their track record?

 

And the best thing is the transport minister has yet to show his face to make a statement on this flyover collapse.

 

I do not know what others think because a lot of govt organisations use this contractor since donkey years ago. Praying hard that no tragic accidents will happen.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Watwheels

[Maxus-MIFA9]

I can't imagine what will happen when the viaduct becomes operational. More could have their life ended prematurely not just a poor chap from China.

 

I think this could be why things like this happen....

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/collapse-of-uncompleted-pie-viaduct-contractor-recently-fined-9030718

 

 

I was surprised to see the stark difference in the tender budget between this contractor vs the others. How come no one is suspicious as to why this contractor can offer such an attractive price compared to the competitors? If the media can dig out dirt on this company how is it that LTA can choose this contractor w/o reviewing their track record?

 

And the best thing is the transport minister has yet to show his face to make a statement on this flyover collapse.

 

I do not know what others think because a lot of govt organisations use this contractor since donkey years ago. Praying hard that no tragic accidents will happen.

 

You think our media will dig into it...

 

Our media is not like other countries media where they are quick to jump onto the government if something is not right.

 

Of which, they force the one in-charge of that Ministry to apologise and resign.   

 

Some of the best examples where media are strong are South Korea, Japan and Taiwan ...

[Watwheels]

You think our media will dig into it...

 

Our media is not like other countries media where they are quick to jump onto the government if something is not right.

 

Of which, they force the one in-charge of that Ministry to apologise and resign.   

 

Some of the best examples where media are strong are South Korea, Japan and Taiwan ...

 

Ok lah. Let me rephrase that.

 

If our weak media can seethe thru open information why can't LTA see that?

 

Actually it's quite scary to see the same contractor had done so much road works and even constructions. Which really begs the question on its reliability. Hopefully we don't find out the tough and tragic way.

[Blueray]

PIE viaduct collapse 'a man-made incident that could have been avoided': Lim Swee Say

 

 

 

"One thing for sure is that this is a man-made incident that could have been avoided, if everyone involved in this project had paid enough attention to the design and construction of the viaduct, and the safety of workers," said Mr Lim at the annual Workplace Safety and Health Awards.

 

 

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/pie-viaduct-collapse-a-man-made-incident-that-could-have-been-9061448

 

 

Such depth and insight into the matter ... 

[Mockngbrd]

Maaaaayyyybeeeeeeeeee if Gahmen don't keep giving out jobs to THE LOWEST BIDDERRRR??????? WHY WHY???? GAHMEN NO MARNI AH?????? 

[Volvobrick]

Better continue to award to the lowest QUALIFIED bidders.  Disqualify those with poor safety or performance records.

 

If too much discretion by the tender evaluation committee, then hanky panky will sure to happen.

 

 

[Kusje]

 

Don't need to start from scratch. As I have mentioned in my previous post, just rebuild those column with crack(s).

 

 

 

I'm not an expert in this (although some in my family are) nor am I engineering trained but I think it boils down to whether or not you believe that those cracks are the only thing wrong with the structure.

 

I'm hesitant to believe so because the cracks were found by the company responsible (ownself check ownself) and there could be other things being overlooked because they don't even know what to look for. LTA must do the inspection themselves but I'm not sure if they have the technical capabilities to do so.

[Kyrios]

I can't imagine what will happen when the viaduct becomes operational. More could have their life ended prematurely not just a poor chap from China.

 

I think this could be why things like this happen....

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/collapse-of-uncompleted-pie-viaduct-contractor-recently-fined-9030718

 

 

I was surprised to see the stark difference in the tender budget between this contractor vs the others. How come no one is suspicious as to why this contractor can offer such an attractive price compared to the competitors? If the media can dig out dirt on this company how is it that LTA can choose this contractor w/o reviewing their track record?

 

And the best thing is the transport minister has yet to show his face to make a statement on this flyover collapse.

 

I do not know what others think because a lot of govt organisations use this contractor since donkey years ago. Praying hard that no tragic accidents will happen.

 

Hmm..not sure fake news or not but the talk on the ground is that some higher ups within OKP are ahem..you know..affiliated to...ahem..they who cant be named...ahem..

[Victor68]

PIE viaduct collapse 'a man-made incident that could have been avoided': Lim Swee Say

 

 

 

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/pie-viaduct-collapse-a-man-made-incident-that-could-have-been-9061448

 

 

Such depth and insight into the matter ... 

 

He is absolutely right but he got the root cause completely wrong. The root is right on top where how Singapore govern, set  and control standard and quality. 

 

If we out source everything and just rely on collecting paper documents with rubber stamps, this is the sad story. Not everything is about cheap and fast. A holistic review and having people in the authorities responsible in ensuring works are done that meet international codes. 

[Volvobrick]

I'm not an expert in this (although some in my family are) nor am I engineering trained but I think it boils down to whether or not you believe that those cracks are the only thing wrong with the structure.

 

Good point - like what about those foundations already buried underground and cannot be inspected? Any cracks there or any rebar inside the concrete?

[DACH]

Good point - like what about those foundations already buried underground and cannot be inspected? Any cracks there or any rebar inside the concrete?

Actually it also depends how deep the foundations are buried underground.

 

If it is too shallow, the risk of it toppling is higher.