New VERS scheme for aging HDB

[pegasi]

isnt that precisely the reason why the VERS and HIP2 is introduced?

 

so as to ensure your flat maintain its value and to allow those who wish to encash to have a additional channel to explore?

 

Most of us here can understand.

 

But why trick the masses who can't understand into thinking that their HDB will always be worth more in the future thru their asset enhancement scam? For votes?

 

Well, you gotta pay the piper one day.

[RadX]

Most of us here can understand.

 

But why trick the masses who can't understand into thinking that their HDB will always be worth more in the future thru their asset enhancement scam? For votes?

 

Well, you gotta pay the piper one day.

 

 

abuthen?

 

no guarantee one wat...can say say....in end they say plans changed......

[Vratenza]

In Hokkien: Gong Wei Bian Luii

 

abuthen?

 

no guarantee one wat...can say say....in end they say plans changed......

 

[Somewhat1975]

 

HDB policies need an overhaul badly to bring it down to a soft landing. From the current crop of yesmen/women, I don't see it happening. 

 

HDB has been "soft landing" for the past 5 years. 

 

[Evillusion]

isnt that precisely the reason why the VERS and HIP2 is introduced?

 

so as to ensure your flat maintain its value and to allow those who wish to encash to have a additional channel to explore?

 

 

20-30 yrs left in the lease......what maintain value you talking about. After half life of the lease, the value can only go down.

[pegasi]

ok noted

 

20-30 yrs left in the lease......what maintain value you talking about. After half life of the lease, the value can only go down.

[Vratenza]

That's property cycle in tight relation with the private property market. Wait for the next up cycle when your HDB hit 1K PSF and above.

 

Soft landing needs engineering on the policy side. I don't see any policy changes that reflects such an attempt.

 

HDB has been "soft landing" for the past 5 years. 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Vratenza

[Icedbs]

isnt that precisely the reason why the VERS and HIP2 is introduced?

 

so as to ensure your flat maintain its value and to allow those who wish to encash to have a additional channel to explore?

 

 

While HIP2 is good, I want to remind the masses that value is still determined very largely by demand and supply, not just the maintenance.

 

Demand and supply is very much determined by the authorities.

 

For flats going through HIP2, buyers would have very stringent loan and CPF restriction. For those VERS one, where the age of the HDB is at least 70 years (so lease left less than 30 years), CPF cannot be used at all.  So while HIP2  is nice and even possible VERS,  the amount of potential buyers are very few. Where is the demand to sustain the value?

 

But well, demand can always be tweaked, so we shall see.

[Evillusion]

That's property cycle in tight relation with the property market. Wait for the next up cycle when your HDB hit 1K PSF and above.

 

Soft landing needs engineering on the policy side. I don't see any policy changes that reflects such an attempt.

some still dont get it. HDB is never free we paid for the 99 yrs.....even with sers you get back market rate but still need to buy another just that you will have to top up or keep the difference. The gov is free to rebuilt and squeeze more housing at a higher price with the land.Thats how the cycle goes.......the gov owns the land or until kingdom come or whichever come first. There is no loss for the gov, the land will always be there appreciating in price, earning and maximising revenue for the country.

[Somewhat1975]

That's property cycle in tight relation with the property market. Wait for the next up cycle when your HDB hit 1K PSF and above.

 

Soft landing needs engineering on the policy side. I don't see any policy changes that reflects such an attempt.

 

 Some simple facts. 

 

HDB  major policies change in the last 5 years

 

1) delink the BTO price with resale price. BTO price is now pegged to annual household income.

 

2) Limit the purchase of resale flat by PRs. PRs now need to wait 3 years after obtaining their PR to buy a resale flat.

 

3) ramp up the supply of BTO flats after 2013

 

[Evillusion]

Some simple facts.

 

HDB major policies change in the last 5 years

 

1) delink the BTO price with resale price. BTO price is now pegged to annual household income.

 

2) Limit the purchase of resale flat by PRs. PRs now need to wait 3 years after obtaining their PR to buy a resale flat.

 

3) ramp up the supply of BTO flats after 2013

 

i rather we allow PR to have 1 property in SG, either HDB or private.........housing is an important and scarce commodity in SG, why should we let foreigners have 2 properties. Allowing them to buy our public housing is already a generous gesture.

[Kezg1]

some still dont get it. HDB is never free we paid for the 99 yrs.....even with sers you get back market rate but still need to buy another just that you will have to top up or keep the difference. The gov is free to rebuilt and squeeze more housing at a higher price with the land.Thats how the cycle goes.......the gov owns the land or until kingdom come or whichever come first. There is no loss for the gov, the land will always be there appreciating in price, earning and maximising revenue for the country.

 

 

... the best part is we are being charge for land price as well just like private condo and we are only leasing...for private condo when En Bloc takes place is a different story...alot more $$ being paid to per unit.

[Evillusion]

... the best part is we are being charge for land price as well just like private condo and we are only leasing...for private condo when En Bloc takes place is a different story...alot more $$ being paid to per unit.

later someone says its akin to robbing the state coffers......

[Wt_know]

well said

 

While HIP2 is good, I want to remind the masses that value is still determined very largely by demand and supply, not just the maintenance.

 

Demand and supply is very much determined by the authorities.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Wt_know

[Vratenza]

I highlight what you said with a private example: Far East Organization

 

https://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/condominium/homes-sold-as-leasehold-tenures-on-freehold-sites/a/168526

 

OWNERS of The Shore Residences may be unaware that they are part of a small group to have bought units sold with leasehold tenures, though the developer owns a freehold land title.

 

The 408-unit condominium in Marine Parade got its temporary occupation permit in January.

 

Its developer Far East Organization in 2009 took the rare step of selling units with a 103-year lease even though the land is freehold - a scarce commodity in Singapore.

 

Experts say the move allows a developer to retain the freehold land for redevelopment later, rather than selling away the title.

 

Far East acquired the site of The Shore Residences through a collective sale of the former Rose Garden, which was freehold, for $169.8 million - or $423 per sq ft (psf) per plot ratio (ppr) - in August 2006.

 

The unusual approach to lease tenures is not the first such instance here, property consultants said, but it is not common.

 

Experts estimated that freehold homes could command a premium of about 15 to 20 per cent over similar leasehold units, so developers who sell such homes do not get the land's full value. The units are more affordable, as a result.

 

And as younger buyers become more receptive to properties with shorter leases, these units are attractive because their lower prices mean a higher rental yield compared with freehold units.

 

But buying such a property could become thorny, noted Century 21 chief executive Ku Swee Yong, as any eventual en bloc sale requires the land owner's consent. Even if the green light is given, he is not obliged to extend the tenure, and the fees required to do so would be at his discretion.

 

Such a development strategy is preferred by family-owned businesses, who are less concerned with delivering results to shareholders, as opposed to listed firms. They can possess freehold land through collective sales or inheritance.

 

"Developers which are not listed, including those which are family-controlled, would have more flexibility in adopting the practice of selling leasehold tenures while retaining a freehold reversionary interest," said Mr Ong Teck Hui, national director of research and consultancy at Jones Lang LaSalle.

 

Far East - owned by the Ng family - for instance, has also developed the 103-year leasehold Greenwood Mews in Greenwood Avenue and Cabana in Sunrise Terrace, which are similar cases. The firm is believed to be the first to develop leasehold properties on freehold sites that it owns.

 

Freehold sites are a precious resource in land-scarce Singapore, so carving out shorter leases for sale would ensure that ownership of these "legacy parcels" is retained, noted Ms Chia Siew Chuin, director of research and advisory at Colliers International.

 

Similarly, the State holds land in trust for Singapore, and sells it on a 99-year lease to developers. This recycles land resources for future uses as the country evolves, added Ms Chia.

 

While there are no conclusive records on the number of leasehold properties on freehold land - or which was the first to be built - Knight Frank data showed that one such shophouse in 48 Arab Street started its 99-year lease as far back as March 1952.

 

Similar properties that have been in the spotlight include the 99-year leasehold Spring Grove condo in Grange Road, which sits on the former residence of the American ambassador. Sim Lian Group's 99-year leasehold Rochelle at Newton in Keng Lee Road, which is on freehold land owned by the Chui Huay Lim Club, is a similar case.

 

Mr Lee Liat Yeang, partner at Rodyk & Davidson, noted that while there are no rules on how short a property's tenure should be, developers sell homes at new launches with at least a 60-year lease to meet financing requirements. "In today's context, where pricing determines successful take-up, a 99-year lease is universally accepted and provides an affordable entry price for buyers," added Mr Donald Han, managing director of Chesterton Singapore.

 

 

 

Isn't it the same as the government retaining freehold title as land owner and leasing it out for 99yrs to build HDB.

 

All those who unknowingly bought into The Shore Residences (I assume there should be quite alot), little do they know that their chance of enbloc is almost zero and have to depend on the charity of the landowner (Far East) if they are to derive any value out of the property in 20-30 yrs time. Any enbloc value will be at Far East's consent and offer price.

 

Now reflect that fact on the VERS/SERS.....while you may have bought your resale HDB at prevailing free market rate, but when it hits >70yrs, what ever value of your remaining lease is determined by the government and not the free market.

 

Food for thoughts.

 

some still dont get it. HDB is never free we paid for the 99 yrs.....even with sers you get back market rate but still need to buy another just that you will have to top up or keep the difference. The gov is free to rebuilt and squeeze more housing at a higher price with the land.Thats how the cycle goes.......the gov owns the land or until kingdom come or whichever come first. There is no loss for the gov, the land will always be there appreciating in price, earning and maximising revenue for the country.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Vratenza

[Evillusion]

I highlight what you said with a private example: Far East Organization

 

https://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/condominium/homes-sold-as-leasehold-tenures-on-freehold-sites/a/168526

 

 

Isn't it the same as the government retaining freehold title as land owner and leasing it out for 99yrs to build HDB.

 

All those who unknowingly bought into The Shore Residences (I assume there should be quite alot), little do they know that their chance of enbloc is almost zero and have to depend on the charity of the landowner (Far East) if they are to derive any value out of the property in 20-30 yrs time. Any enbloc value will be at Far East's consent and offer price.

 

Now reflect that fact on the VERS/SERS.....while you may have bought your resale HDB at revailing free market rate, but when it hits >70yrs, what ever value of your remaining lease is determined by the government and not the free market.

 

Food for thoughts.

i forgotten about the freehold property......i apologise. There are a few property owners that pactised what you attached. Freehold to the owners but 99 yrs leaseholds for the tenants. We have forgotten the lessons of 97 and how it affected the property market back then. Many are hedging on having a job and appreciation of the assets, thinking mlstly about the profits and ignoring what may happen. I really hope 97 doesnt pay us a visit again but this bubble is getting to huge. Even the dotcom bubble caused many to lose their pants.

[Throttle2]

I think there are a lot of stuff to complain about in singapore but hdb I feel is something that our government has got mostly right.

 

Which is not easy... yet the people are not appreciative ....

 

I am going to spend a bit of time on the train typing reasons...

 

The two most popular complaints is government let hdb have market value and resale to prs.

 

1) if u don’t let market decide pricing for resale, what price is hdb going to pay to take back the flats? So many issues... do hdb access flat conditions? If they do, how much to pay for Reno and good condition? If they don’t, all your hdb will become a slump as no one want to invest in their house Reno and upkeep. What price to set for resale? Lower than the new price since the remaining lease is less? Then people will not get back any cash when they sell hdb.... how to upgrade? Higher than twhen they buy, where is the money going to come from?? Currently a lot of these money comes from PRs who can’t buy new or richer singaporeans who cashed out on something.

 

How much are they going to sell those resale flats to next owners????

 

I cannot believe the amount of administrative work that will entail to price all those hdb resale and if people complain now... I tell u it will be 10x louder when hdb set resale price

 

2) if u don’t let PRs buy resale, hdb resale is going to tank, then everyone selling off hdb will not get any cash....

 

Be appreciative of what u have

When HDBs can be used to profiteer?

When certain groups of Singaporeans are denied the right to buy HDB to live in?

 

Wake up already

[Throttle2]

i forgotten about the freehold property......i apologise. There are a few property owners that pactised what you attached. Freehold to the owners but 99 yrs leaseholds for the tenants. We have forgotten the lessons of 97 and how it affected the property market back then. Many are hedging on having a job and appreciation of the assets, thinking mlstly about the profits and ignoring what may happen. I really hope 97 doesnt pay us a visit again but this bubble is getting to huge. Even the dotcom bubble caused many to lose their pants.

Sometimes we need a calamity to clean up.

Remember Noah and the Ark?

 

People need to lose their income so they can learn first hand how to be prudent.

An 80s kind of recession with high unemployment would be a good test for our people.

Yup, i think that would be good in the long run