Singapore Private Property prices still up or down? Part III

[Throttle2]

2 hours ago, Wt_know said:

everyone has some valid points ...

everyone has different profile and need ... 

everyone has different level of ability ...

everyone has different priority in life ... 

just dont force it down to everyone throat ...

enough said ...

Who say?  You forgot? Only property angels are right. Becos they are gurus and experts.  

Muayhahahahahahahaha

 

[Showster]

Actually nobody force anybody.

People are just putting forth their views. 

It might be the best for some but it also might not be for you. 

The worst are those who need and want but pretend that it’s bad. Just call a spade a spade and let us know the alternative strategy - rent all the way better mah?

[Icedbs]

I am not sure why this thread has turn into some sort of sarcasm thread.

I hope that every senior MCF members realised that there are members of public who come to this thread looking for new information every day.  While not an obligation, we should be kind enough  to share our honest views and not some form of sarcasm. 

In investment matters, there is no right or wrong...only different views due to different investor profile, different risk level, different objectives. different age.  Just because some views differ from us does not mean they are wrong. We just have to give our  views, justify why is that so and then open our mind for different perspectives.

This thread can be potentially the best thread in MCF if we all want it to be so.

[Rskc]

9 hours ago, Icedbs said:

I am not sure why this thread has turn into some sort of sarcasm thread.

I hope that every senior MCF members realised that there are members of public who come to this thread looking for new information every day.  While not an obligation, we should be kind enough  to share our honest views and not some form of sarcasm. 

In investment matters, there is no right or wrong...only different views due to different investor profile, different risk level, different objectives. different age.  Just because some views differ from us does not mean they are wrong. We just have to give our  views, justify why is that so and then open our mind for different perspectives.

This thread can be potentially the best thread in MCF if we all want it to be so.

Agreed. It used to be one of the best thread where the for and against will share their thoughts constructively, agreeing to disagree. It has been degraded to a certain degree of self trumpeting e.g. one's earning power at times and what one drinks or wear at time. What value does it bring to this thread? For fun and laughter is nice, too much becomes a drag. 

Let us get back to the nice debates from both sides and let forummers decide by themselves. They are not stupid and will know what to ignore.

By the way bro Icedbs, I always remember you posted some nice views previously and I thank you for that. Cheers. 😎 

[Khng8]

It would be helpful if when one advocates to buy, share what the profile of the buyer should be. What’s the expected ROI?

For a multiple property owner nearing retirement, it may not make sense to buy now.
 

[Showster]

The conversation will inevitably dwindle in quality because:

1. Buyers committed and no longer need to seek or contribute opinions.

2. Other potential buyers are either unable or unwilling to buy. Whether one is comfortable with the price, so few can actually qualify to buy.

3. Very few other than agents want to put forth their theories or thoughts to be proven right or wrong.

I would say, loosen all the measures, then we will qualify people who really want to buy. The quality of the discussion will then increase tremendously.

Let those who over commit and those who underestimate true values pay or earn for their mistakes and their right judgement. 

[Staff69]

the reason why properties in KEY Cities will keep raising,  but when it will stop and who will be left holding the baby, no one knows...

in the meantime,  never over stretch your own budget

and dont buy johor properties cos it's a dark hole🤣🤣🤣

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-influential-cities-in-the-world-2018-5#2-london-uk-20

 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-influential-cities-in-the-world-2018-5#2-london-uk-20

Edited October 18, 2020 by Staff69

[Icedbs]

2 hours ago, Arcachon said:

https://dollarsandsense.sg/complete-guide-property-buyers-decipher-ura-master-plan/?fbclid=IwAR1AA8NWlLZyp-ZhMQIilTK0xPjZt0qsdEWCkjGJrzyKq3nXZXEF9js8Rx8

 

Nice.....I use the onemap a lot for the URA masterplan, but didn't realise it also gives the demographics information. 

Thanks for the sharing.

 

[F10_Blackhawk]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:41 PM, ToyotaShuttle said:

Actually the issue is that they didn't build sufficient public housing and the BTO scheme is a failure. If there is sufficient public housing, then resale prices cannot be out of control anyway so MOP or no MOP, how does it matter?

what pdpa restrictions? He already told you some stuff right? As long as don't mention the name, will be fine. I don't think it has anything to do with pdpa.

Maybe this is the figment’s of poster imagination to frighten readers. Just like I still hear people frighten others that bank will ask for top up if property value is below loan outstanding (if I free, I’ll debunk this myth.... especially in such strict TDSR loan regime) . Who buy property don’t buy mortgage or term insurance is kum gong or don’t have good advisor. 

Last time best, can buy single premium mortgage insurance. But even though now the insurance cost is higher and insurance company smart to stop selling single premium policy, I continue to buy for each of my property incl investment property. My agent advised me don’t need coz it’s ‘investment’....Even if something happen, rental can continue cover installments.  However I rather the property be fully paid for so my dependents just enjoy the full rental income. 

[Alfc]

17 hours ago, Icedbs said:

I am not sure why this thread has turn into some sort of sarcasm thread.

I hope that every senior MCF members realised that there are members of public who come to this thread looking for new information every day.  While not an obligation, we should be kind enough  to share our honest views and not some form of sarcasm. 

In investment matters, there is no right or wrong...only different views due to different investor profile, different risk level, different objectives. different age.  Just because some views differ from us does not mean they are wrong. We just have to give our  views, justify why is that so and then open our mind for different perspectives.

This thread can be potentially the best thread in MCF if we all want it to be so.

I hardly read this thread now. Much prefer the one started by Bro Merc which is more information instead of opinions. Maybe that is what makes this one so controversial. Recent reads I find too many typical MLM-style laden materials.

 

 

[Icedbs]

7 hours ago, Rskc said:

Agreed. It used to be one of the best thread where the for and against will share their thoughts constructively, agreeing to disagree. It has been degraded to a certain degree of self trumpeting e.g. one's earning power at times and what one drinks or wear at time. What value does it bring to this thread? For fun and laughter is nice, too much becomes a drag. 

Let us get back to the nice debates from both sides and let forummers decide by themselves. They are not stupid and will know what to ignore.

By the way bro Icedbs, I always remember you posted some nice views previously and I thank you for that. Cheers. 😎 

Thanks and appreciate it.  

Somehow I have stop sharing my insights on property in this forum because my post are often viewed with skepticism; that I must have an agenda  simply because I am licensed agent.   

Anyway, I am in the process of starting a website that focuses on  property data research for data driven decisions.  In early 2018, I wrote an e-book on my top 5 best value new launches based on a set of metrics that I designed.  At that time, there were dozens of new launches, so I wanted to know myself which 5 has the best value. 

That e-book was only given to a small circle of friends and investors. Few days ago, out of curiosity,  I re-look into that 5 new launches again and check their latest average $psf.  They are all near to their TOP now, but still under construction.  Out of the 5 new launches,  three of them had gain 11+% appreciation, one at 5+% appreciation and another one at 0.2% appreciation.   I think  I  have mentioned about this e-book somewhere in this thread few years back.

It is stuff like this that fascinates me. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Icedbs

[Rskc]

2 hours ago, Icedbs said:

Thanks and appreciate it.  

Somehow I have stop sharing my insights on property in this forum because my post are often viewed with skepticism; that I must have an agenda  simply because I am licensed agent.   

Anyway, I am in the process of starting a website that focuses on  property data research for data driven decisions.  In early 2018, I wrote an e-book on my top 5 best value new launches based on a set of metrics that I designed.  At that time, there were dozens of new launches, so I wanted to know myself which 5 has the best value. 

That e-book was only given to a small circle of friends and investors. Few days ago, out of curiosity,  I re-look into that 5 new launches again and check their latest average $psf.  They are all near to their TOP now, but still under construction.  Out of the 5 new launches,  three of them had gain 11+% appreciation, one at 5+% appreciation and another one at 0.2% appreciation.   I think  I  have mentioned about this e-book somewhere in this thread few years back.

It is stuff like this that fascinates me. 

Please do continue to share.👍 I think most accept constructive criticism except the 1 or 2. Let them be since this is a forum. Most of us accept we can never be always right. 🙂

Agent or not, I think most of us have some inclinations.😉 

[Showster]

9 hours ago, Showster said:

The conversation will inevitably dwindle in quality because:

1. Buyers committed and no longer need to seek or contribute opinions.

2. Other potential buyers are either unable or unwilling to buy. Whether one is comfortable with the price, so few can actually qualify to buy.

3. Very few other than agents want to put forth their theories or thoughts to be proven right or wrong.

I would say, loosen all the measures, then we will qualify people who really want to buy. The quality of the discussion will then increase tremendously.

Let those who over commit and those who underestimate true values pay or earn for their mistakes and their right judgement. 

I need to clarify for point 3 I don't mean that only agents put forth their positive views. In fact, some agents like Ku Swee Yong also put forth negative views. 

I meant that few other people would actually bother to explain and clarify and test their hypotheses about their predictions. Out of concern, I explained in 2016 to 2018. Today, I share the same concern as well. But who will really believe in that kind of concern? 

I have put up an excel table explaining the viability of property before, but it was shot down by those who obviously knew what I referred to. Those tables are still valid today. 

[Showster]

One example:

In those tables, I assumed an average interest rate of 2% and it was shot down as being too low an assumption. They said I should use 3.5% or higher as the base interest rate.

Will need to revise the interest rate to 1% or 1.5% if I were to ever do those tables again. 

Much lower rates than expectations...

Will find those tables when time permits. Let’s visit this again.

[Yewheng]

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/property/dysons-sell-3-storey-penthouse-at-wallich-residence-in-singapore-for-62-million?utm_campaign=STFB&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

 

Ultra Rich people really bo la sa.. Buy if they like, sell if they don't like.. Hack care whether is it a profit or loss.. They have so much more money then 10 to 20 million losses. 

[Staff69]

Anyone wants to hold the 👶 

 

[F10_Blackhawk]

12 hours ago, Showster said:

One example:

In those tables, I assumed an average interest rate of 2% and it was shot down as being too low an assumption. They said I should use 3.5% or higher as the base interest rate.

Will need to revise the interest rate to 1% or 1.5% if I were to ever do those tables again. 

Much lower rates than expectations...

Will find those tables when time permits. Let’s visit this again.

Yes, please share that excel file again here.  Thanks!

[Dp26]

22 hours ago, Arcachon said:

1M65

Why I dread going to a Property Showflat | A Pen Quotes

https://apenquotes.wordpress.com/2020/10/17/why-i-dread-going-to-a-property-showflat/

See my reply to Apenquotes:

Hi Apenquotes,
I thought I share my “discovery” with you regarding property investment for rental income. Like many others, I used to calculate the rental returns by dividing the net income by the purchase price of the property. So for eg., the cost of the property is $1M, and my net rental income is $25K after deducting cost such as maintenance fees, loan interest payment, agent fees etc., I would compute that the returns as $25K / $1M or 2.5%
But thats not how “enlightened” property investors do. They leveraged.

They dont pay the full price of the investment property, instead they leveraged on a bank loan. And in these times of low interest rates, this leverage works wonders.

So lets take the case of that $1M property. Lets say you pay $350k and take a loan for the rest at $650K. The loan interest at 1.4% pa will cost you about $9,100 a year.
Now the net rental income (after deducting cost) is $25K, so the ROI for you would be
$25k / $350k = 7%

And if say, after two years, there is capital appreciation of $40,000, then the appreciation ROI is
$40,000 / $350,000 / 2 years = 5.7% pa

This is the reason, why property investment is still popular.

There is of course risks of economic downturn like now with Covid, where getting tenants can be a problem and even capital depreciation. So, one must have holding power to invest in property.

Personally, it has been profitable property investment journey for me. I compare my networth with colleagues who are happily staying put in their HDBs without investing nor upgrading to private property, my NW came up tops by $2M or more.

This sharing is not to entice you to invest in property but to give you a perspective of what “enlightened” investors see in property investment.

Hope these people see that leverage is the tool to make extra money in this instance, not necessary the property. 

property is good cos it’s one of the biggest ticket we can leverage on. 
but there are also many other liquid instruments that others can leverage as well. All your stocks, funds, ETFs are all leverage friendly stocks if they are not the penny kind.. 

 

anyway the “enlightenment” should be how leverage increases your returns not how property increase your returns.