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how to solve COE volatility? Gov doing the pricing


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20 hours ago, Fitmugen said:

Yeah, at the end of the day, car is not a necessity in SG. If cannot afford, there are many options that are almost as convenient.

Save your proposals for the day when there is food shortage. That one I agree, cannot be bidding system and gahmen must step in, if not people will die of hunger!

Totally agree!

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6th Gear
3 minutes ago, Calvin8808 said:

Having more and cheaper COEs doesn't mean the revenue will be less. For example, selling 500 COEs at $100K a piece ($50m) compared to selling 2,000 COEs at $60K a piece ($120m). Not to forget more cars on the road, more ERPs to be collected, fuel duties etc. That's if the intention is really just to generate revenue. Also what's stopping the Govt to issue more COEs and at the same time all COEs have a reserved price of at least $80K?

 

 

typical mentality of them, not my problem and only act until have to

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Twincharged

Bidding sure high price.

When I was a kid ever attended 7th month dinner before they can bid so much for a piece of charcoal.😅

We see Art piece auction, the bid price also goes way beyond the starting price.

But when go supermarket buy charcoal for BBQ the price is fix 🤣

Then I realised the red ribbons must have been the expensive stuff 😅.

So many people fighting to have it.

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Supercharged

Going round and round now lol

Basic thing is COE is an ownership tax, not usage tax. But despite quota frozen for many years now the usage has skyrocketed thanks to PHV and rentals. Meanwhile those who use their car less (for private purpose) have to pay the same premium as a commercial user of the car who contributes 90% of the congestion on the road.

So you wanna get serious about tackling congestion need to focus tax around usage. Satellite ERP? Maybe but pls not with 20th century tech. For me this usage question is the most important reason why car rental and PHV need to split out from general COE quota. They broke the system

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Supersonic
(edited)
16 hours ago, Calvin8808 said:

The intention of COE is always to control the population of the cars. If the main intention is for revenue, selling more COEs instead of controlling the number of COEs will generate more revenue. 

Optics. 

Just like we all know how much our ministers are paid (at least ball park millions) 

How many do we see drive bentley/RR/porsche? How many flash AP/PP whatever P on their wrist? How many of the female ministers carry herpes in public eyes? 

In order to continue the revenue stream, the show must go on and not kill the golden goose. Whatever car population control and traffic jam solutions are just a means to and end. 

So, if they want my money to fund the govt coffers, just be upfront about it and just tax me for my income one time jialat jialat each year and leave me alone for the rest of the year. 

That is my point of view. We can agree to disagree on that. 

Edited by Vratenza
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Hypersonic

Support

:D

45 minutes ago, Calvin8808 said:

Having more and cheaper COEs doesn't mean the revenue will be less. For example, selling 500 COEs at $100K a piece ($50m) compared to selling 2,000 COEs at $60K a piece ($120m). Not to forget more cars on the road, more ERPs to be collected, fuel duties etc. That's if the intention is really just to generate revenue. Also what's stopping the Govt to issue more COEs and at the same time all COEs have a reserved price of at least $80K?

 

 

 

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6th Gear
38 minutes ago, Vratenza said:

Optics. 

Just like we all know how much our ministers are paid (at least ball park millions) 

How many do we see drive bentley/RR/porsche? How many flash AP/PP whatever P on their wrist? How many of the female ministers carry herpes in public eyes? 

In order to continue the revenue stream, the show must go on and not kill the golden goose. Whatever car population control and traffic jam solutions are just a means to and end. 

So, if they want my money to fund the govt coffers, just be upfront about it and just tax me for my income one time jialat jialat each year and leave me alone for the rest of the year. 

That is my point of view. We can agree to disagree on that. 

agree lah...Money is never enough for anyone, even more so for government. Collection of tax is an art. It is like pulling feathers from goose without causing too much quacks! The COE price now is like pulling half of all the feathers from a goose, quack like hell! 😂

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Twincharged
(edited)
8 minutes ago, Optramagnum said:

You should see the crowd in those condo new launches. Like wet market.. Units were sold in minutes. 

thus in Cheng Hu's eyes, singaporeans still got money.. KPKB for what. continue to Go Squeeze Them.

image.thumb.png.a78efe970965e1ed76b80a253110ceaf.png

Edited by Mkl22
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Twincharged
(edited)

still no answer after 6 pages. Let me add more confusion to the discussion.

To solve COE price volatility, first is to balance the COE quota distribution over the 10 years, there must be equal number of COEs every year, otherwise the price volatility will happen.  But that still does not mean COE price will not fluctuate, it will still go up and down to some extent, during the good years, COE price will increase because people have more money to spend. Likewise when a few popular brands start to launch new model at the same time, COE price will go up as well due to the competition.

We have to understand that COE quota is a 3 decades old problem, while it can be solved, it will come with a huge price. There are only 600,000 COE available in total. During the low COE quota period now,  LTA will not increase COE quota allocation, so the only option left is for LTA to pull back COE during the high COE quota period to reserve them for low COE quota years, when this happen, those people who scrap their cars when LTA is tightening COE allocation, COE price will shoot through the roof. The situation can last for a few years, can we afford that ?

One more thing, COE will not stay low when COE quota is evenly distributed, it will likely be higher instead. Take for example, Cat B was $30k during the low and $110k during the peak, assuming COE should average around 50k with a flat COE distribution, it may end up higher because there is no more bumper crop COE, COE supply will be tight all the time, resulting in price increase. And when people are used to $50k, dealer will start to bid higher and higher to compete among themselves to secure car delivery.

At the end of the day, removing COE volatility will only create a more predictable COE price trend, it will not reduce COE price overall. There are only 60k COE available per year,  it transltaes into 5,000 COE per month or about 1,250 COE per CAT per bidding exercise, there will be no cheap COE, those who could not afford would still unable to afford.

Edited by Ct3833
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Hypersonic

Gov doing the pricing?

You can control the price

or the quantity but you cannot control both!

:D

If set price too high not all quota taken up

If you control quantity then price will go up and down.

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Turbocharged

One interesting suggestion I heard is pegging coe rebate to current coe price vs paid coe price. Coupled with full cash coe, I think it will reduce the volatility by a lot without much changes if gov is adverse to making big changes.

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6th Gear
10 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

still no answer after 6 pages. Let me add more confusion to the discussion.

To solve COE price volatility, first is to balance the COE quota distribution over the 10 years, there must be equal number of COEs every year, otherwise the price volatility will happen.  But that still does not mean COE price will not fluctuate, it will still go up and down to some extent, during the good years, COE price will increase because people have more money to spend. Likewise when a few popular brands start to launch new model at the same time, COE price will go up as well due to the competition.

We have to understand that COE quota is a 3 decades old problem, while it can be solved, it will come with a huge price. There are only 600,000 COE available in total. During the low COE quota period now,  LTA will not increase COE quota allocation, so the only option left is for LTA to pull back COE during the high COE quota period to reserve them for low COE quota years, when this happen, those people who scrap their cars when LTA is tightening COE allocation, COE price will shoot through the roof. The situation can last for a few years, can we afford that ?

One more thing, COE will not stay low when COE quota is evenly distributed, it will likely be higher instead. Take for example, Cat B was $30k during the low and $110k during the peak, assuming COE should average around 50k with a flat COE distribution, it may end up higher because there is no more bumper crop COE, COE supply will be tight all the time, resulting in price increase. And when people are used to $50k, dealer will start to bid higher and higher to compete among themselves to secure car delivery.

At the end of the day, removing COE volatility will only create a more predictable COE price trend, it will not reduce COE price overall. There are only 60k COE available per year,  it transltaes into 5,000 COE per month or about 1,250 COE per CAT per bidding exercise, there will be no cheap COE, those who could not afford would still unable to afford.

fully support a stable supply and more predicable COE supply. After all, car is a transportation tool lah, its price should not move up and down like stock market. I don't mind high price COE. If the COE is too low, it will attract a lot of people who can't afford to join the fun and only suffers heavy debt payment later. Why is LTA not acting on it? still sleeping? 9 clock already, wake up! 

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Turbocharged
On 8/3/2022 at 8:45 AM, yishunite said:

Going round and round now lol

Basic thing is COE is an ownership tax, not usage tax. But despite quota frozen for many years now the usage has skyrocketed thanks to PHV and rentals. Meanwhile those who use their car less (for private purpose) have to pay the same premium as a commercial user of the car who contributes 90% of the congestion on the road.

So you wanna get serious about tackling congestion need to focus tax around usage. Satellite ERP? Maybe but pls not with 20th century tech. For me this usage question is the most important reason why car rental and PHV need to split out from general COE quota. They broke the system

Rippling effect caused by disruptive start-up techs that are not appropriately contained or regulated. ://

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6th Gear
5 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

Nobody ask CNA to write. It is such a hot topic that it is impossible to ignore. Let's the minister can pretend nothing is wrong for how long. 

The current transport minister like quite relax leh. Not many things to solve compared to Lui and Khaw. He should try to solve this COE problem now. 

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Supersonic
(edited)
12 minutes ago, Daniu82 said:

The current transport minister like quite relax leh. Not many things to solve compared to Lui and Khaw. He should try to solve this COE problem now. 

Who's the transpork minister now? 

Edited by Volvobrick
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