[Lightbringer]

Lightbringer no need to make attacks on people's intelligence lah. You can't shove an open mind down someone's throat. I know you want to strangle some people for being so obtuse (i also want), but to resort to name calling would just cloud the issue and close off more minds.

 

Some of us are trying to be rational and make people aware that there are deeper issues to this matter than just the "illegal" strike by some PRC bus drivers, hence the posting of various articles, essays and discussions. Some people are so conditioned in their roles as worker bees that they will refuse to listen to any alternative viewpoint. I just hope that some minds have been opened, even if only a little and maybe some people have started to think about our world a little more than they used to. Our education system has not failed, i'm afraid it has done it's job too well.

 

I do get a chuckle out of the doomsday massive labour unrest scenario that has been trumpeted in the press and that people are still falling for it.

 

Touche. I have always said that I do not suffer fools lightly and I am not a patient man. But I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. Unfortunately knowing it does little to curb my acerbic tongue, which is why I never had the aptitude to teach.

 

I bow to and make way to the efforts being mounted by those you've mentioned who are trying to make people aware. Good call.

[Damienic]

From what I see in this discussion, it appears the pap has done a pretty good job in manipulating the minds of certain sections of the population. People are led to believe that a strike of any nature will lead to instability of the country, is always wrong and strikes must be avoided at all course as they are detrimental to the country. I really do wonder in countries like France, Italy and UK where strikes are not that uncommon, what sort of instability and scaring of investors with property prices dropping had exactly taken place? propaganda seems be working like a clockwork here judging by how many people believe in the theory put forward. I'm amazed...

[Lightbringer]

what if you are not allow to do that. you can only break bond and pay back. worse still not able to find another job in Singapore. and going back to china you are still facing debt from the amount of cash you had borrow from your friends and relative on top of the bond that you own your company.

 

frankly go find out more on the pledge of our foreign worker who came here to take over the job that the employer want to only pay low pay for.

 

J22, I'm surprised that you are actually making sense for once!

 

Good to know you have the empathy to recognize the financial, emotional and structural constraints faced by these transient workers.

 

Sometimes it's really, really sad to see how my fellow Singaporeans regard foreign workers as mindless, emotionless chunks of flesh whose only sole purpose and role in life is to provide cheap and uninterrupted labour so that we can carry on sipping out Earl Grey tea (or teh-ping? or frappucino?) and surf the Internet at our leisure.

 

They've been dehumanized to the point where they are no longer recognized as human beings who have dreams, aspirations, family, ideals and emotions as well, as humble or mundane as these might be.

[Lightbringer]

From what I see in this discussion, it appears the pap has done a pretty good job in manipulating the minds of certain sections of the population. People are led to believe that a strike of any nature will lead to instability of the country, is always wrong and strikes must be avoided at all course as they are detrimental to the country. I really do wonder in countries like France, Italy and UK where strikes are not that uncommon, what sort of instability and scaring of investors with property prices dropping had exactly taken place? propaganda seems be working like a clockwork here judging by how many people believe in the theory put forward. I'm amazed...

 

It all boils down to poor education (by education I refer to the capacity for critical thought as well as the ability to find and navigate one's own moral compass in life), pure selfishness (as long as my interests are met I do not care how many suffer or live in pain) as well as an intellectual dumbing down of the population through careful manipulation of the media as well as the creation of social structures designed to keep people meek and compliant.

 

Starting to sound a little too much like Animal Farm eh?

[Wind30]

Lightbringer no need to make attacks on people's intelligence lah. You can't shove an open mind down someone's throat. I know you want to strangle some people for being so obtuse (i also want), but to resort to name calling would just cloud the issue and close off more minds.

 

Some of us are trying to be rational and make people aware that there are deeper issues to this matter than just the "illegal" strike by some PRC bus drivers, hence the posting of various articles, essays and discussions. Some people are so conditioned in their roles as worker bees that they will refuse to listen to any alternative viewpoint. I just hope that some minds have been opened, even if only a little and maybe some people have started to think about our world a little more than they used to. Our education system has not failed, i'm afraid it has done it's job too well.

 

I do get a chuckle out of the doomsday massive labour unrest scenario that has been trumpeted in the press and that people are still falling for it.

 

Actually calling other people stupid actually reflect more on you than the other person.

 

I don't think that doomsday scenario is that unjustified.

 

I have thought hard over what sort of competitive adv Singapore has in this global economy. We don't have natural resources. We don't have a giant market to buy things. We don't have huge pool of skilled labour.

 

Really, if you are EDB trying to attract companies to invest in Singapore what would you say?

 

I really think the main sell for singapore are,

 

1) stability.

2) wide variety of FTs. From high pay ones like foreign execs, to China technical engineers, to maids, to construction workers. Each of them has their own niche in our economy that makes them successful.

 

I thought about it, read the 1 million word article, and my conclusion is still clamp down the bus drivers. Granted on the hindsight, SMRT should probably shoulder more of the blame but does not mean we let the bus drivers off.

[Sosaria]

what if you are not allow to do that. you can only break bond and pay back. worse still not able to find another job in Singapore. and going back to china you are still facing debt from the amount of cash you had borrow from your friends and relative on top of the bond that you own your company.

 

frankly go find out more on the pledge of our foreign worker who came here to take over the job that the employer want to only pay low pay for.

 

Same as I've said. Many of us have been in the same situation. In debt from uni fees, just take up a first job, serve out the bond, cannot break bond because not enough cash. Like the job or not, we serve it out. Then look for another job once debt is cleared and bond is over. Why the PRC driver situation so special that they can make noise just because they don't like it halfway through their job? They go into the job and decide to come over here with eyes open. Unless they were told a different story, or mis-led, we don't know for sure.

 

Anyway, industrial action, strike or protest has always been a lose-lose proposition, even in countries that allow the freedom to do so. Just look at the airline industry, two examples, United, and closer to home, Qantas. Their employee strike only causes disruption and losses all around. I don't think the employees gain much, but the losses suffered by the company also hits them.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Sosaria

[Joseph22]

J22, I'm surprised that you are actually making sense for once!

 

Good to know you have the empathy to recognize the financial, emotional and structural constraints faced by these transient workers.

 

Sometimes it's really, really sad to see how my fellow Singaporeans regard foreign workers as mindless, emotionless chunks of flesh whose only sole purpose and role in life is to provide cheap and uninterrupted labour so that we can carry on sipping out Earl Grey tea (or teh-ping? or frappucino?) and surf the Internet at our leisure.

 

They've been dehumanized to the point where they are no longer recognized as human beings who have dreams, aspirations, family, ideals and emotions as well, as humble or mundane as these might be.

actually our main different is my lousy command of english that produce nonsense posting and our individual belief with regards to existence of God. other than that, i am more in agreement with you in lots of things

 

and yes, its pretty disappointing that our country current state despite been consider by many of its citizen as first world, really have a 3rd world mindset.

[Joseph22]

Same as I've said. Many of us have been in the same situation. In debt from uni fees, just take up a first job, serve out the bond, cannot break bond because not enough cash. Like the job or not, we serve it out. Then look for another job once debt is cleared and bond is over. Why the PRC driver situation so special that they can make noise just because they don't like it halfway through their job? They go into the job and decide to come over here with eyes open. Unless they were told a different story, or mis-led, we don't know for sure.

 

Anyway, industrial action, strike or protest has always been a lose-lose proposition, even in countries that allow the freedom to do so. Just look at the airline industry, two examples, United, and closer to home, Qantas. Their employee strike only causes disruption and losses all around. I don't think the employees gain much, but the losses suffered by the company also hits them.

dont like it 1/2 way and forcefully change of contract condition 1/2 way is 2 different thing.

 

dont tell me that you as a Singaporean if you sign a bond with a said company who 1/2 way through the bond decide to change the contract condition of the bond and you are only given two choice. Scam and pay for breaking the bond or sign a new one. you will take it lying down to either quit or sign new bond??

[Lightbringer]

I've said this once and I'll say it again - reposting one of my old posts from way back.

 

Also like to say that success of any sort is indeed a blessing - a blessing that you were in the right place, in the right time, certain factors were tilted in your favor, and there was a fortuitous confluence of events and factors that led to the achievement of a particular milestone in a successful path.

 

That doesn't means I don't believe in hard work, determination or personal capability - these are all important factors that we can cultivate within ourselves to improve our chances of success. But possessing these three qualities does not guarantee success in any manner. Therefore, it follows that a successful person is "blessed" - not in the divine sense, but in a roll-of-the-dice sense.

 

Therefore it beehoves any "successful" person to be mindful that there are many more individuals out there in our society as well as the world who might be equally capable, determined or hardworking - but have not enjoyed a similarly-"blessed" roll of the dice, and hence might be perceived as being unsuccessful. As for the less capable, determined or hard working individual in society - they are still human beings with aspirations, dreams, family and personal needs. They are also human, and not mere numbers to be moved around in a spreadsheet subjected either to accounting rules or economic principles.

 

Alas, our politicians have long lost sight of this. The elitist mentality and fast-track scheme all point prominently to their lack of such a social conscience and humility.

 

It is indeed refreshing to see esteemed minds and luminaries such as CSJ and Tan Jee Say touch common ground with the less-fortunate and common folks - I'm sure they are of the same mind and heart as me.

[Wind30]

dont like it 1/2 way and forcefully change of contract condition 1/2 way is 2 different thing.

 

dont tell me that you as a Singaporean if you sign a bond with a said company who 1/2 way through the bond decide to change the contract condition of the bond and you are only given two choice. Scam and pay for breaking the bond or sign a new one. you will take it lying down to either quit or sign new bond??

 

are you sure this is what happened? I really doubt it because it sounds illegal even to a layman like me.

 

I don't think SMRT can change the contract terns unilaterally.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Wind30

[Mustank]

what if you are not allow to do that. you can only break bond and pay back. worse still not able to find another job in Singapore. and going back to china you are still facing debt from the amount of cash you had borrow from your friends and relative on top of the bond that you own your company.

 

frankly go find out more on the pledge of our foreign worker who came here to take over the job that the employer want to only pay low pay for.

 

I know I know like saf regulars, teachers?

[Sosaria]

...

 

I thought about it, read the 1 million word article, and my conclusion is still clamp down the bus drivers. Granted on the hindsight, SMRT should probably shoulder more of the blame but does not mean we let the bus drivers off.

 

Agreed too. Intellectual-types can ponder this and that and what-ifs and various ideal scenarios. But end of the day, back to reality, a decision still has to be made. The rest of the problems that led to this event will then have to be fixed too.

[Joseph22]

are you sure this is what happened? I really doubt it because it sounds illegal even to a layman like me.

 

I don't think SMRT can change the contract terns unilaterally.

 

 

didnt i show you the link in the other thread? also did you not read the opening letter post by TS??

 

hack, this news was even reported on our MSM. not to say TR, TOC and even Yahoo have coverage.

 

surely, if you do not trust our MSM you will had read the other website or Vice versa?

Edited December 3, 2012 by Joseph22

[Joseph22]

I know I know like saf regulars, teachers?

 

their contract always follow through for the X-number of years. it might change when re-contract come of course.

[Sosaria]

their contract always follow through for the X-number of years. it might change when re-contract come of course.

 

Or new terms will be proposed halfway through, due to policy changes, but option normally given to continue on old terms till present contract lapses, or sign on to new ones with almost immediate effect. Usually some carrot is dangled to encourage change, of course

Edited December 3, 2012 by Sosaria

[Lightbringer]

Agreed too. Intellectual-types can ponder this and that and what-ifs and various ideal scenarios. But end of the day, back to reality, a decision still has to be made. The rest of the problems that led to this event will then have to be fixed too.

 

You do realize that these "intellectual-types" have LONG AGREED that strikes are indeed damaging and undesirable, but have since then moved on to more complex and deeper issues underlying this incident so as to better reflect on the values that Singaporeans as a society would like to champion and enshrine, as well as to better analyse and understand the exact mechanism - and the systematic and widespread failures - that our labour market and industrial relations framework have experienced, which precipitated in this strike?

 

Apparently not because you obviously lack the intellectual capacity to realize that the discussion has LONG EVOLVED beyond the simple, primary-school question of "Are strikes good for Singapore?".

 

Seriously, read before your comment, think before you write. I find it hard to believe a grown, educated adult holding down a proper job in the professional world can be so obtuse and dense for so long!

[Lightbringer]

Lightbringer no need to make attacks on people's intelligence lah. You can't shove an open mind down someone's throat. I know you want to strangle some people for being so obtuse (i also want), but to resort to name calling would just cloud the issue and close off more minds.

 

Some of us are trying to be rational and make people aware that there are deeper issues to this matter than just the "illegal" strike by some PRC bus drivers, hence the posting of various articles, essays and discussions. Some people are so conditioned in their roles as worker bees that they will refuse to listen to any alternative viewpoint. I just hope that some minds have been opened, even if only a little and maybe some people have started to think about our world a little more than they used to. Our education system has not failed, i'm afraid it has done it's job too well.

 

I do get a chuckle out of the doomsday massive labour unrest scenario that has been trumpeted in the press and that people are still falling for it.

 

I'm sorry, I've failed. I truly do not have the tolerance or patience to suffer these fools who continue to harp on an issue that has long been laid to rest and unanimously decided on a long time ago. People are still asking if strikes are good for Singapore or not!!!!!

 

It's like freaking tribesmen living in the depths of the Amazon rainforest asking if tsunamis were good for countries which were ravaged by it. And totally missing the questions that meteorologists and geologists are asking and answering in order to better understand why tsunamis happen and how we can prevent or at least predict them and dampen their damaging effects. And then throwing spears at the meterologists and geologists for not asking the same dumb questions of whether tsunamis are good or bad together with them.

 

God, it's like a horror movie come alive.

[Aventador]

'Lightbringer' date='Dec 3 2012, 11:19 PM'

 

It is indeed refreshing to see esteemed minds and luminaries such as CSJ and Tan Jee Say touch common ground with the less-fortunate and common folks - I'm sure they are of the same mind and heart as me.

 

Hahahaha, Chee soon Juan is a moron who could not even go on a proper hunger strike! Esteemed indeed.

(A Glucose drip is cheating)

 

The Workers Party did things the correct way and won 6 seats in parliament including a GRC, kicking out a minister in the process. Hats off to them.

 

CSJ did nothing besides embarrass himself and the votes reflect what Singaporeans think of him.

 

Stop politicizing the issue by claiming its is about workers rights

 

It is about the stability and harmony of Singapore, and no one should be allowed to mess with that.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Aventador