Friendstar Supercharged January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 20 feb. Budget announcement. Song boh! ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey10 Supercharged January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 So in the end after all the papa and mama story - car prices will go up or down? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoldjaffa Hypersonic January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 Pardon me... My double hit means: 1. The cev rebate is not transferred to the buyer 2. The cev rebate amount is deducted from the ARF before calculating the PARF (ARF 20k - CEV 5k, then divide by 2= 7.5k) 1) technically yes CEVS rebate is transferred to only the first buyer because the cost of goods sold is reduced. 2) there's no whammy here. Because upfront you paid less ARF, so the PARF you get back is still 50% of ARF So in the end after all the papa and mama story - car prices will go up or down?Depends on COE, depends on how much margin the AD wanna make, depends on how much in demand the particular car is. Too many factors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civic6228 6th Gear January 4, 2017 Author Share January 4, 2017 1) technically yes CEVS rebate is transferred to only the first buyer because the cost of goods sold is reduced. 2) there's no whammy here. Because upfront you paid less ARF, so the PARF you get back is still 50% of ARF Depends on COE, depends on how much margin the AD wanna make, depends on how much in demand the particular car is. Too many factors. I agree with you. That is why I don't understand why there are claims that ADs taken a cut of the CEVS. Margin/profit, has nothing to do with CEVS. Based on my understanding, CEVS is a rebate given and will affect the PARF at the end of ten years when the car is scrapped. You get the rebate now and you get back less PARF at the end. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wt_know Hypersonic January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 CEVS = dealer profit margin similarly like COE dealer price their car up and down as a total package including coe, cevs, loan quantum, margin, discount, finance rebate, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vratenza Supersonic January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 Maybe it is easier for you to visualize this way: You pay the same amount for a CEVs rebate car that has less PARF at the end of it's life compared to the same car without CEVs rebate. Your paper value already takes a hit once you drive your car off the AD lot whether you drive for 3 yrs or 10yrs. The selling price list of ADs will show you say 150k minus 15k rebate = 135k final price. Did the AD mean to sell rhe car at 135k in the first place and mark it up by 15k just so that the buyer can see that he got his "rebate"... Which incidentally made his purchase more expensive considering he paid" more" for a car considering the lesser parf value. Give you a non-car example: handbag cost price $100, selling price that the shop have to sell to generate a decent profit is $500. The shop advertise the original price at $800 but give you launch discount of $200 off the listed price. You bought the bag at $600 feeling all smug because you got a good discount. In actual fact the shop managed to earn off an extra $100 from you. Both are happy... I guess that is the important part? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
therock Supersonic January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 I don't think bro civic is on the same page ... How is something a REBATE if you have to return all or part of it at the end? A rebate by definition is something you are given, that's it. No need to return or it does not fit the definition. You are assuming that the dealers will honestly give you the entire 15k CEVS in the form of a price reduction. But if you look at historical prices (and yes the models may have changed), but a model in a certain range has not gotten cheaper as the result of the CEVS, so where has the money gone, obviously it has not benefitted you, and so the only person who has been enriched is the dealer. Exactly how much is pocketed will vary from model to model, and from rebate amount and timing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyke Supercharged January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 (edited) useless to just consider 1 aspect, ie. CEVS, must consider everything, ie. derive depreciation, to see true picture Edited January 4, 2017 by Eyke 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shibadog Turbocharged January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 If cevs was really a push for greener cars they won't ask for the rebate back. That's not a rebate when you have to pay it back!! yup. I see it as a reduction in prepaid tax (ARF) in any case, it's not much value (!) to see it on it's own. Need to see the full picture, which is estimated annual depreciation, whether u use straight line or reducing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch1984 4th Gear January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 CEVS basically just lowers the cost of the car for the AD. They can choose to sell at a higher margin (your CEVS kanna eaten) or maintain their margin (you get to enjoy the full CEVS). Its the AD's decision. What buyers get at the end of the day is lower parf. Having said the above, there are ADs who maintains their margin so you get to enjoy the full effect of the CEVS rebate. The CEVS should at the end of the day lowers the annual depre of cleaner cars (i.e. cheaper to own). So when CEVS reduces in Jul 2017, depre of the same car and model will be higher (assuming same COE level). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civic6228 6th Gear January 4, 2017 Author Share January 4, 2017 (edited) yup. I see it as a reduction in prepaid tax (ARF) in any case, it's not much value (!) to see it on it's own. Need to see the full picture, which is estimated annual depreciation, whether u use straight line or reducing. COE, OMV , GST & Excise Duty, Tiered ARF Payable CEVS(Rebate) and of course margin from ADs That is precisely what I was trying to say. There are many factors to consider and the cost of the car is very transparent vis one motoring Consumers knows exactly how much margin that ADs are making. I still don't see how ADs take a cut from CEVS. Like I said when I started the thread. I don't see the benefit of the CEVS rebate as we get the rebate now, we get lesser back in the PARF. In my opinion, LPPL and I question the purpose and implementation of the CEVS rebate. There is hardly any benefit to consumers. My apologies ... but I am still not able to link CEVS to margin from ADs or how ADs get a cut for the CEVS. In any case, let just leave it as it is. PS. I am not a car salesman lol Edited January 4, 2017 by Civic6228 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic January 4, 2017 Share January 4, 2017 COE, OMV , GST & Excise Duty, Tiered ARF Payable CEVS(Rebate) and of course margin from ADs That is precisely what I was trying to say. There are many factors to consider and the cost of the car is very transparent vis one motoring Consumers knows exactly how much margin that ADs are making. I still don't see how ADs take a cut from CEVS. Like I said when I started the thread. I don't see the benefit of the CEVS rebate as we get the rebate now, we get lesser back in the PARF. In my opinion, LPPL and I question the purpose and implementation of the CEVS rebate. There is hardly any benefit to consumers. My apologies ... but I am still not able to link CEVS to margin from ADs or how ADs get a cut for the CEVS. In any case, let just leave it as it is. PS. I am not a car salesman lol CEV will either increase or decrease ARF paid. If increase ARF paid, PARF will increase If decrease ARF paid, PARF will reduce. Our computed margin is shared btw factory, importer & dealer. So, we can't says AD $xxx of margin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben5266 Supercharged January 5, 2017 Share January 5, 2017 CEVS = dealer profit margin similarly like COE dealer price their car up and down as a total package including coe, cevs, loan quantum, margin, discount, finance rebate, etc. like the HDB grant. "Given" to the buyer directly but pocket by the seller indirectly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoldjaffa Hypersonic January 5, 2017 Share January 5, 2017 I don't think bro civic is on the same page ... How is something a REBATE if you have to return all or part of it at the end? A rebate by definition is something you are given, that's it. No need to return or it does not fit the definition. You are assuming that the dealers will honestly give you the entire 15k CEVS in the form of a price reduction. But if you look at historical prices (and yes the models may have changed), but a model in a certain range has not gotten cheaper as the result of the CEVS, so where has the money gone, obviously it has not benefitted you, and so the only person who has been enriched is the dealer. Exactly how much is pocketed will vary from model to model, and from rebate amount and timing. gahmen will say, technically the rebate is given in FULL because the ARF paid is less. when getting PARF, you are getting back what you paid, but not returning what was not paid. that's all the gahmen cares. dealers, yah lah they just lower their COGS but never pass on the savings to consumers. that's the beef that we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusnel 6th Gear January 5, 2017 Share January 5, 2017 like the HDB grant. "Given" to the buyer directly but pocket by the seller indirectly. Bro, u r right This CEVS rebate is like our BTO. garment says subsidised price. But how they come to the subsided price, we all know..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyke Supercharged January 5, 2017 Share January 5, 2017 Our computed margin is shared btw factory, importer & dealer. So, we can't says AD $xxx of margin. no point to know who gets how much. to know gross margin is good enough, whatever you want to call it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Hypersonic January 5, 2017 Share January 5, 2017 no point to know who gets how much. to know gross margin is good enough, whatever you want to call it. There is a diff here. If this margin is reduced & goes to OMV, buyer will pay more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoldjaffa Hypersonic January 5, 2017 Share January 5, 2017 There is a diff here. If this margin is reduced & goes to OMV, buyer will pay more. no. the OMV is already determined, along with the taxes and incidental costs. then the AD marks up from there to determine their gross margin. so it doesnt matter at all to us, the proportion of margin to where because they will already have set it right. it is not the other way round where a fixed margin is set, and then they work backwards to pay the costs. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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