Middle class blues

[Jman888]

Seems like in those countries, even there are FT/FW doing those jobs but the number of FW/FT doesnt seem as many as here?! Over here sometimes i really feel that i am in foreigner country, as all the people around me are foreigners!

 

 

in KL, you would think you are in United Nation <_<

[CKP]

you are so wrong, says this report... [laugh]

 

Singapore slips to No. 7 most innovative in the world: Survey

By Grace Chng Senior Correspondent

Published on Jul 02, 2013

 

Singapore has been ranked the seventh most innovative among 142 economies surveyed by business school Insead for the Global Innovation Index 2013.

 

But this is four places lower than the third position it garnered last year, according to the report, released yesterday.

 

Mr Bruno Lanvin, the report's co-editor and executive director of Insead's European Competitiveness Initiative, said methods for the ranking were tweaked this year, adding, among other things, an emphasis on quality and impact. As a result, the United States shot up to third position from 10th.

 

Singapore is one of two Asian economies in the top 10, the other being Hong Kong, in sixth spot on the Global Innovation Index (GII). Switzerland and Sweden took the top two positions respectively.

 

 

It's not useful, irrelevant and even counter productive to cite such 'innovation studies'

when the topic of discussion was "the level of creativity in or is encouraged by education".

 

The innovation study you cited is detached from "creativity in education" per se

because such a innovation study is focused entirely on the "components, factors and pillars of innovation".

 

These 'factors and components of innovation' include but are not limited to infrastructure,

market & business sophistication, total shareholder returns, labor productivity, technology returns,

government fiscal policies, enrollment ratio for post-secondary students and manufacturing value-added as percentage of GDP.

 

The missing component of innovation in such a study is

"the level of creativity in or encouraged by education", the current topic of discussion.

 

In other words, the term "innovation" in such global innovation studies

is not the same as "creativity in education".

 

[Coolad]

if you think along the line of 'gdp at all costs' and 'boosting population/birth rate', you wouldn't be wondering.

 

Precisely y i am boggled... the most highly paid politicians on this entire planet can only come up with single dimension policy/solution.

 

Way way overpaid and underdeliver if i shld say...

[Coolad]

Seems like in those countries, even there are FT/FW doing those jobs but the number of FW/FT doesnt seem as many as here?! Over here sometimes i really feel that i am in foreigner country, as all the people around me are foreigners!

 

I tried calling my mum just now... and I only pressed 1 wrong digit, guess wat... a PRC answered... WTF

[Hydrocarbon]

Working in a place where 90% of my peers are real foreign talents, from your 3rd world asian countries like china and india, to advanced economy like korea and Japan, and even "atas" ang moh countries, I can honestly tell you that foreign talents are over-rated. Their communication skills are equally bad. Put all these people around the same meeting table, the singaporean usually has to end up being the translator because the aussie guy cannot understand the indian, the frenchs and germans can barely speak english properly, and the prc prefer to speak in mandrain. And then there will always be this asian with inferior complex who think the ang moh is looking down on him, or this occasional russian who the ang moh think is farking rude...Sometimes I do wish I have a chance to see how meetings are conducted at UN. As for real capability, some are good, some are bad. Just a mixed bag.

 

Those who can really communicate well, are, honestly, just good salesman, sorry, I mean business managers, who hardly know what they are talking about.

 

Anyway, it is not this group of real foreign talents that is depressing your middle class wage because most sinkie probably can't do their work anyway. It is the foreign talent wannabes who come here with degrees (possibly bought from a black market) and start depressing the wage by asking for 2k pay. Employers here are also one of a kind, you give them a chance to unlimited supply of cheap foreign worker, sorry, I mean "talent", they will never hire singaporeans at singaporean price again, even when the tap supply is off. They just whine that sinkies are not taking up available jobs, while Sinkies complain the pay is too low. There you have it, this is how the middle class dream died and everybody became labelled as strawberry. Price of everything went up, but wages didn't even catch up remotely close. I don't think we have a right to criticise the young because we didn't have to pay 350k for a 4rm bto, squeeze in crazy mrt that is even packed on weekend mornings, or compete with pinoys or indians asking 2k for a job that requires a masters degree.

 

Then again, the goverment can screw the people over and over again because people will stay here anyway. If it wasn't because of the low crime rate and the fact that I can sleep here at night without worrying about earthquakes or tropical storm, I would have already left.

 

Agree with mostly everything, except the good communicators part. In life, communication is really one of the crucial skills. Some people can blow hot air, but it's easy to spot them after a while. Some are really excellent communicators, and they really enable the team to work better together, to delegate tasks to the right people and have the done in the most effective manner.

 

Haiz, the older generation will always criticise the younger generation for being soft, and the younger generation will always think the older generation is out of touch. Only when the younger generation grows older and wiser, will we realise that the there are a lot of truths to what the older generation has said previously. Maybe not in technical terms, but in general wisdom.

 

No offence, from my experience, people who are good in talking always think that they are also good in doing the job. but their colleagues tend to think otherwise.

 

Depends on what job they doing lor. If sales, definitely must be good at talking. Cannot be shy type, right?

[Silver_blade]

in Malaysia, also in HK, they also have a lot of FW doing those job. Malaysia is as bad as singapore, Singapore chinese restaurant at least they hire PRC who can communicate with most, up north they have Myanmar working in F&B :wacko:

Same 'problem' in London too. Fast food outlets used to be run by local teens, now most are eastern Europeans who barely speak english and they usually do not smile. On top of that, there are many eastern Europeans living in the UK enjoying state benefits. But again, cities like London, has always been swamped by non-english eg. middle-easterners, asian, etc.... Used to see more Japs than chinese....now more PRCs than Japs.

[Neost]

Working in a place where 90% of my peers are real foreign talents, from your 3rd world asian countries like china and india, to advanced economy like korea and Japan, and even "atas" ang moh countries, I can honestly tell you that foreign talents are over-rated. Their communication skills are equally bad. Put all these people around the same meeting table, the singaporean usually has to end up being the translator because

 

Anyway, it is not this group of real foreign talents that is depressing your middle class wage because most sinkie probably can't do their work anyway. It is the foreign talent wannabes who come here with degrees (possibly bought from a black market) and start depressing the wage by asking for 2k pay. Employers here are also one of a kind, you give them a chance to unlimited supply of cheap foreign worker, sorry, I mean "talent", they will never hire singaporeans at singaporean price again, even when the tap supply is off. They just whine that sinkies are not taking up available jobs, while Sinkies complain the pay is too low. There you have it, this is how the middle class dream died and everybody became labelled as strawberry. Price of everything went up, but wages didn't even catch up remotely close. I don't think we have a right to criticise the young because we didn't have to pay 350k for a 4rm bto, squeeze in crazy mrt that is even packed on weekend mornings, or compete with pinoys or indians asking 2k for a job that requires a masters degree.

 

Then again, the goverment can screw the people over and over again because people will stay here anyway. If it wasn't because of the low crime rate and the fact that I can sleep here at night without worrying about earthquakes or tropical storm, I would have already left.

 

 

Singaprean being a translator - Precisely this is why we are still relevant to the world economy. The day whereby ang mo can understand the chinese well and the chinese can speak to ang mo well, we, little red dot and some said pi sai, will be gone

 

Cheap foreign labour - Actually if you compare apple to apple, good quality local vs good quality foreign worker, you will realise that foreigners are not cheap any more. If you add in all the levy, insurance etc, it can be more expensive than just to get a local.

[Throttle2]

thats probably because they BELIEVE that their privileged background and powerful connections

 

did not play any part in their current successes

 

they achieved what they have through pure hard work only

 

and everybody who are not as wealthy as them are simply lazy

 

how can people living in ivory towers understand the difficulties that peasants face?

 

 

 

Privileged background and connections of course helps.

Anyone who denies that is disillusioned.

 

Likewise, anyone who thinks that the world owes them becos they dont have privileged background and connections are equally disillusioned.

 

[Bobby_tan]

cos middle income are also old and 'lim peh ka le kong' sets in [laugh]

 

 

btw bro...badminton on when i am ready...abt a months time

 

Sure brudder? Later you peng san nobody call ambulance hor...

[Bobby_tan]

Innovative lar...how they come up with reasoning when they want to increase their pay to match those in corporate world....and innovative also when they come up with excuse to supress our pay but still insist that sg is still affordable to the lower income. If these are not innovative idea i donno what is!

 

They are velly innovative when it comes to reasons to pay themselves more...but when come to paying us peasants more leh, they are sibei creative with their excuses not to pay us more.

[13177]

I tried calling my mum just now... and I only pressed 1 wrong digit, guess wat... a PRC answered... WTF

Lol. Now everytime when i received those marketing calls, 100% are pinoy! Thinking am i living in Philippines?

Edited July 2, 2013 by 13177

[Maseratigood]

Can see it in another light. Most sgians seems to be giving up on the rat race. Back in the 70s and 80s we are the pride of SEA where we are number 1 in the region and things were looking up. Hard work will be automatically means u will get somewhere in life owns a car...a house/apartment and can look forward to retiring. Now everything so expensive and those up there wants high productivity but getting same pay as a decade ago. There is no point of thinking of retirement as most of the money in cpf will be locked down.

The new fts are working hard as the money made here is big comparing to the pittance given back home. They also know that in a decade or 2 they can sell-off everything and return home. Singaporean cant do that...stucked with big loans...and nowhere to return to. Human nature....human nature to slowly give up when there is nothing to look forward......better buy toto n get the hell outta here!

Agreed

I look forward to toto/big sweep/4Ds everytimes... there's no where else to return to (with profits made from sale of flat/house here) like the PRs/FTs etc...

[Bobby_tan]

Lol. Now everytime when i received those marketing calls, 100% are pinoy! Thinking am i living in Philippines?

 

Everyday I kena at least 2 calls from credit card companies asking if I wan to apply card. Dunno why they like Pinoy so much leh. Maybe if they get some Aussie/Euro chiobu with a sexy voice to market maybe I get the card lor...

[Yattokame]

thats probably because they BELIEVE that their privileged background and powerful connections

 

did not play any part in their current successes

 

they achieved what they have through pure hard work only

 

and everybody who are not as wealthy as them are simply lazy

 

how can people living in ivory towers understand the difficulties that peasants face?

 

 

I happen to know someone like that........ a head in a foreign bank. came from a wealthy family anyway. thinks that those who are not rich are because they are plain lazy.

 

I do volunteer work regularly and I can tell you some people are really forced by circumstances. An NS fren of mine had to stop schooling despite his very good PSLE and O levels results; he worked 3 jobs but his family always owe ah-long money, and his mum needed to pay hefty medical bills.

 

did he work hard? hell, yes.

did he have a choice? no.

 

in life, no matter what you say, luck does play a part.

karma or not, somehow I feel my luck got better since I started doing charity work. or maybe I just feel more contented with life.

[Solar]

yes.. even 'normal' folks won't know how much our friendly neighborhood banglar sweepers suffered to work here if you don't really take notice.

the guy at my place practically 7 days, have simple rice plus a bit of veg for meals, cos food here is expensive.

collect trash for residents (sometimes try to sell usable ones for a few bucks) and so on.

 

the other time i gave him 2 n95 and taught him how to use and he was so grateful..

if he could, i don't think he will wanna work here.

 

so the point is... unlikely those higher-up will know the situation below them unless they really get hands dirty to find out.

to them, middleclass are just some people, some number, some issue, and that's it..

 

transport ministar was doing that for a while (let's not go there whether he wayang or not ), but at at least he got down from his tower for a while..

[13177]

Agreed, in life, no matter what you say and do, luck does play a part. I know some people who cannot do work well and yet earning high bucks, whereas some always landed in salary which is always lower than others.

[Bobby_tan]

Actually in SG, most of the 'middle class' is not really middle class. We are just credit class, buy BMW or some conti car and then buy condo to show off and try to act more atas but actually we really bo lui. So whenever anything happen these credit class all mati until cham cham one. Those that can afford landed but staying in HDBs are the smart 'upper class' ones. Bcos you have to be a rich man to own a HDB in SG nowsadays.

[13177]

Actually in SG, most of the 'middle class' is not really middle class. We are just credit class, buy BMW or some conti car and then buy condo to show off and try to act more atas but actually we really bo lui. So whenever anything happen these credit class all mati until cham cham one. Those that can afford landed but staying in HDBs are the smart 'upper class' ones. Bcos you have to be a rich man to own a HDB in SG nowsadays.

I guess the smart ones are those who can afford private house but stay in HDB, can afford to buy luxury conti cars but buy korea cars.

Edited July 2, 2013 by 13177