Middle class blues

[Jamesc]

my humble opinion.

 

We got here too easy and too fast.

 

Our initial years of growth (first 20 years or so) was a result of rapid industrialisation. the manufacturing boom from a cheap hardworking labour force is not rocket science. Political stability and well planned infrastructure development, coupled with our strategic location along shipping lines, propelled us from third world to second.

 

But anybody can do low cost and hard work. its always been there. And as our low cost, hard work, competitive edge eroded with the emergence of IN, CN, etc., we tried, in the more recent past 20 years, to keep up with the growth, to attain first world, by switching into higher "value-added" sectors : banking, finance, law, medical-tourism, service-tourism (CASINO), R&D. GDP per capita went through the roof, but we paid a price. the price is that some sectors paid off, while others were punished, somewhat unjustly.

 

Every tom dick and harry today, knows which industries pay well. Ask any 18 year old today which career he'd like to have, and the answer is obvious. the one that pays. But for the 45-50 year old, PMET in manufacturing, or even the 35 year old who did his PHD in bio-engineering or the like, its too late to switch. screwed by policies. Even today, im sure we're desperately trying to lure/con the uniniated into the less popular, engineering/science disciplines. These folks would have been fine, but have had their cost of living driven up by their better paid counterparts.

 

These folks could have grown and evolved slowly up the food chain. But we took the easy way out, succumbed to the lure of easy money of the other lucrative fields. Now its irrecoverable, imo. We didnt give our manufacturing sector a chance to move up the chain, to evolve beyond hard work and low cost. and so today, we only compete on those terms. cost and "hard work". Our best and brightest have long fled those industries.

 

The next 20 years will be very interesting. the demise of manufacturing and the rise of our service industry has played out. whats next? whatever it is, i pray for our children that our leaders get it right.

Tonyhawk for president

 

 

 

[Porkerchong]

i think now couples with combined monthly income of anything less than 10K is consider low income.

middle class is 10K-20K monthly

upper class is 20K and above monthly

ELITE class is anything more than 50K monthly

Edited July 4, 2013 by Porkerchong

[VolksBarSG]

yup, it is very different overseas I think.

 

wonder if that model will work in singapore.

 

It confirm will work, but first we have to get rid of the 'blue collar workers all no education' mindset. Even the garbage man in Netherlands got study one.

 

[Viceroymenthol]

It confirm will work, but first we have to get rid of the 'blue collar workers all no education' mindset. Even the garbage man in Netherlands got study one.

 

Study so much to throw garbage for what?

 

What a waste of the State's resources!

 

That place in school could have gone to someone else who can grow up to contribute in more important ways to the economy/society!

 

You are simply proposing to ape the liberal developed West's socioeconomic model without thinking why they ended up in that situation in the first place. They are a complete farking mess and they know it! And you fools are simply dying to copy their style.

[VolksBarSG]

This just in: FT numbers in SG. No wonder people say hard to find Singaporeans in SG nowadays.

 

[VolksBarSG]

Study so much to throw garbage for what?

 

What a waste of the State's resources!

 

That place in school could have gone to someone else who can grow up to contribute in more important ways to the economy/society!

 

You are simply proposing to ape the liberal developed West's socioeconomic model without thinking why they ended up in that situation in the first place. They are a complete farking mess and they know it! And you fools are simply dying to copy their style.

 

 

The garbage man is highly trained in what we would last time call the Vocational Institute. He knows how to operate complex machinery and is highly efficient at his job thanks to the specialised training.

[Somewhat1975]

i think now couples with combined monthly income of anything less than 10K is consider low income.

middle class is 10K-20K monthly

upper class is 20K and above monthly

ELITE class is anything more than 50K monthly

 

you elite is it? really disconnect from ground. This is the real statistics number

 

[Ingenius]

Singapore's unemployment rate is a low 1.9% , this shows that whether FT or not, locals still have jobs what. It is not as if they take away our jobs and we are left jobless. As for suppressing wage, there are many people out there who earns good salary, and those who earn low salary shoud take a look at themselves before blaming the FTs for suppressing their wage. We are in a meritocracy society, and if a FT can replace your job, it only shows how inadequate you are (read how little market value you have).

Edited July 4, 2013 by Ingenius

[Viceroymenthol]

The garbage man is highly trained in what we would last time call the Vocational Institute. He knows how to operate complex machinery and is highly efficient at his job thanks to the specialised training.

 

Highly trained? Vocational Institute? Operate complex machinery? Highly efficient?

 

WASTE MY FARKING TIME

 

Just hire a few hundred Banglas at $400/month each and solve the farking problem!

 

There will always be near-slave labour in Asia for us to hire in large numbers.

 

Human resource is our most important resource. And thank god we live in a neighburhood where dirt cheap labour is available and plentiful and it looks like that way for the next few hundred years at least (if you have ever visited the poorer countries in our region).

[Acemundo]

i think now couples with combined monthly income of anything less than 10K is consider low income.

middle class is 10K-20K monthly

upper class is 20K and above monthly

ELITE class is anything more than 50K monthly

 

 

what about those low on income but high on assets?

[Acemundo]

you elite is it? really disconnect from ground. This is the real statistics number

 

 

haha this one looks surreal to me......at least I don't think my household is so high up

[Bobby_tan]

Whoo all the PAP internet brigade chut liaoz. Regarding the unemployment rate, it does not segregate FTs/PRs/citizens. So while there is a 1.9% rate across the board, when you break it down into the FT/PR/citizen demographics, you will confirm see that local unemployment rate is the highest out of all the groups. And regarding the low salary, FTs ARE suppressing the wages. Why leh? Very simple. Many bosses have the mindset of 'why should I pay you more? I can get an FT for cheaper to do the same work you do.' So you want to ask for raise, the boss tell you go home and sleep. Because to them, it doesn't really matter how well and fast you do the job, you just get the job done by deadline can already. This one who dunno how to do?

 

As for getting replaced by FT, yes, sometimes the boss feels we are not up to standard, but most occasion it's done in the name of 'cost cutting measures'. Because to the company (especially MNCs), no matter how good you are, you are just small fry. So what if you're good? I got a few more good ones already working in the company. I retrench you and bring in a foreigner who has half the salary you do. No issue to me, it won't affect me. Even if the foreigner is a complete and utter incompetent, I still got other good workers to cover what. At most I throw his work to them lah. Of course, this 'wage savings' will result in fatter pockets for the high level management, so the upper management is going to order the chop. Then you see the different levels of management taichi the chop all the way down to the rank and file.

 

All this has nothing to do with inadequacy or whether or not your good at your job, it's simple profit margin.

[Bobby_tan]

Highly trained? Vocational Institute? Operate complex machinery? Highly efficient?

 

WASTE MY FARKING TIME

 

Just hire a few hundred Banglas at $400/month each and solve the farking problem!

 

There will always be near-slave labour in Asia for us to hire in large numbers.

 

Human resource is our most important resource. And thank god we live in a neighburhood where dirt cheap labour is available and plentiful and it looks like that way for the next few hundred years at least (if you have ever visited the poorer countries in our region).

 

And your mentality is why you'll never improve standards. Instead of solving the problem, you're just going around it. What happens when these few hundred banglas decide to get a brain and demand higher wages? Then what are you going to do? Fire them and hire new ones?

Edited July 4, 2013 by Bobby_tan

[Tonyhawk]

Study so much to throw garbage for what?

 

What a waste of the State's resources!

 

That place in school could have gone to someone else who can grow up to contribute in more important ways to the economy/society!

 

You are simply proposing to ape the liberal developed West's socioeconomic model without thinking why they ended up in that situation in the first place. They are a complete farking mess and they know it! And you fools are simply dying to copy their style.

 

I agree with most of the above.

 

unfortunately, the standout for me is the highlighted one. It reeks of elitism. IMO, everybody contributes in their own way. important or not, is not decided by the magic number defined as GDP. but im sure you'd disagree, because its the system that made you wealthy.

[Ingenius]

Whoo all the PAP internet brigade chut liaoz. Regarding the unemployment rate, it does not segregate FTs/PRs/citizens. So while there is a 1.9% rate across the board, when you break it down into the FT/PR/citizen demographics, you will confirm see that local unemployment rate is the highest out of all the groups. And regarding the low salary, FTs ARE suppressing the wages. Why leh? Very simple. Many bosses have the mindset of 'why should I pay you more? I can get an FT for cheaper to do the same work you do.' So you want to ask for raise, the boss tell you go home and sleep. Because to them, it doesn't really matter how well and fast you do the job, you just get the job done by deadline can already. This one who dunno how to do?

 

As for getting replaced by FT, yes, sometimes the boss feels we are not up to standard, but most occasion it's done in the name of 'cost cutting measures'. Because to the company (especially MNCs), no matter how good you are, you are just small fry. So what if you're good? I got a few more good ones already working in the company. I retrench you and bring in a foreigner who has half the salary you do. No issue to me, it won't affect me. Even if the foreigner is a complete and utter incompetent, I still got other good workers to cover what. At most I throw his work to them lah. Of course, this 'wage savings' will result in fatter pockets for the high level management, so the upper management is going to order the chop. Then you see the different levels of management taichi the chop all the way down to the rank and file.

 

All this has nothing to do with inadequacy or whether or not your good at your job, it's simple profit margin.

You said the 1.9% unemployment rate is actually much higher for singaporeans, do you have any facts to back it up ? FWs and FTs are here only if they re employed, so how can they be part of the unemployment rate ?

 

I know of many singaporeans who are holding high paying jobs from a few million a year to fresh graudates from local Universities earning almost 10k a month after working a few years (my sil and bil as a matter of fact). my nephews and nieces worked a few years after they graduate, already drive sport car and bought a condo (no joke). a friend of mine working in IT line in citibank here, earning almost 20k a month years ago, god knows how much he is earning now. and these are singaporeans mind you. if that is not enough, let me just tell you i am in the education industry, and i know of quite a number of my former students who graduated , are holding high positions now and dong very well in their career with good compensation (i know, because we remain as friend). And these, are all singaporeans. Cars and houses are in high demand and prices has risen considerably, is only because people can afford it, thats the testimony of the higher earning capability. You probably are not one of them and so you think every other singaporeans is suffering like you, no thanks to the FTs.

 

some f you who surfs the net regularly and participate in car forums might know bruce. those who knows him knows that he is a singaprean, and when young , was alredy a high flying vp in starhub, today, he has his own realty company already.

 

I give one more exmaple, and this is the epitome i know of. my nephew, graduated from nus as the top number one student in his course, he joined a foreign bank here in sgp, his starting salary (his first job) is a whopping $9k per month , plus $30 daily meal allownce. this young man is the brightest i have ever come across and he has started a charity foundation already. believe it or not is up to you.

 

No doubt there are FTs, some are like nurses, which needs to fill the shortfall of medical workers here, which locals shun. your theory is base purely on the logic that businesses will always get the cheapest FT worker to do the same job. however, do you understand that to earn a high salary, you have to be exceptional and not just mediocre or because you are a singaporean ? My good friend, he is a power station engineer worrkking woth projects in middle east here in sgp, a sgprean, earns as good as a lawyer, because few people can do what he does, btw, we ply mahjong together. bottom line, meritocracy, while it has its ill effects, is the cornerstone of the success factor of singapore, which has no resources exccept the people.

 

the moment you started your reply with 'the pap internet brigade ...", i already think your emotions are clouding your rationale.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Ingenius

[Somewhat1975]

Highly trained? Vocational Institute? Operate complex machinery? Highly efficient?

 

WASTE MY FARKING TIME

 

Just hire a few hundred Banglas at $400/month each and solve the farking problem!

 

There will always be near-slave labour in Asia for us to hire in large numbers.

 

Human resource Salve is our most important resource. And thank god we live in a neighburhood where dirt cheap labour slave is available and plentiful and it looks like that way for the next few hundred years at leastforever (if you have ever visited the poorer countries in our region).

 

correct for you to express your higher mortal kind of thinking in a more articulate way.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Somewhat1975

[Solar]

Tonyhawk for president

 

 

someone said president boh power one... PM better

[Bobby_tan]

someone said president boh power one... PM better

 

Cannot lah, PM is reserved for famiLEE only.