New VERS scheme for aging HDB

[pegasi]

from the same MOM link you provided, nominal 2007-2017 range from 4 to 6.5%

where got 3-4%?

3-4% more likely increase in CPI, not nominal income

 

if nominal income is equal to increase in CPI , then effectively you are getting zero real income increment every year

 

btw where did you get this 6% figure?

 

it's avg nominal of 3-4% according to http://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Income-Summary-Table.aspx
 

 

[pegasi]

bro vratenza, why do you say that our hdb is a 'large ponzi scheme'?

 

do you mean if today 80% of the land is owned by pte developers , eg in the case of hongkong, we do not have to work till 65yr old to pay off home loan?

 

if not, what other 'overhaul measures' do you think is better than the hdb scheme?

 

I applaud your in depth analysis of the current conundrum set in motion and perpetuated by the incumbent since the inauguration of public housing. 

 

That brings us to the point. Just because the system has over the years snared countless citizens into the large ponzi scheme to keep us working till 65yrs old and beyond in the name of productivity,  does it mean that we should keep it going in perpetuality, just so as not to rock the boat? 

 

There are no easy solutions, that I admit, but the current batch of policy makers are the least likely bunch to depend on to overhaul the system. We need fresh eyes and not just yes men/women. 

 

Look, even the PM is telling us to accept our lot and just save to make it easier to survive. How's that coming from the TOP paid politician in the world. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bro showster, thanks for the enlightenment

 

hope the ownself-confusing-ownself bro yeshe readup on the concept of free market policy and inflation before making confusing comments that make no sense

 

HDB has evolved very much from its very early days.

 

But there are very good reasons for some of these changes.

 

The one that is most painful to some is the rise in price. Let's address it. Why did price have to go up?

 

Some of the reasons for the changes (especially related to price rise) are listed below. These are my own observations and interpretations. Please feel free to disagree.

 

 

1. Price of HDB resales is decided between buyers and sellers.

 

Govt only has direct control over the BTO price offered. Even if someone bought his HDB for $10,000, this will not deter him/her from selling at current market price of maybe $500,000. Therefore, even if Govt sells him/her for $1, the owner is still going to market his/her place at $500,000.

 

Relatively free market is more efficient and requires much less manpower to police. I know there were mentions of HDB taking over every single buying and selling transactions, but it will require HDB to probably triple its current manpower size just to manage the sheer numbers. Not practical and will mean more tax to be paid by all for these inefficient arrangements. Much more chances for mismatch between sellers and buyers overall.

 

 

2. Rising incomes.

 

If people's income rose and price stayed at 1980s level, there is going to be huge imbalance. We can choose to cap HDB BTO eligibility at the previous cap ($8000 household incomes), and therefore limit the numbers who are eligible to apply for BTO so as to limit the price offered, or increase the income cap to $12,000 to allow more people with higher household incomes to qualify as first time buyers, and therefore allow some flats to be offered at a higher price point corresponding to rising income.

 

Now what if we raise the income eligible for BTO, but yet offer BTO at yesterday's prices, and we end up with a huge surplus by many households. Isn't this great for everyone? On paper it is, but it is also likely to further widen the income inequality (don't forget that these $12,000 may continue to grow their incomes much faster than the bottom income earners especially if they are young), cause inflationary trends, and send many capable working couples into early retirement mode. What about national productivity? 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by pegasi

[Showster]

In short, the valuation is based on the recent transaction values of comparable units, decided by buyers and sellers.

 

HDB does not have internal valuation anymore. It's just too complex.

 

Your children pay back more and you draw out give them more. Really not an issue. The interests would have been gained anyway if you had not used it for HDB. But really advise against giving your children too much.

 

It's a protection mechanism against children who trick parents into giving them their hard-earned HDB. One of my relatives (no longer in contact) tricked my aunt into transferring HDB to his name and throwing his mother out. If HDB had not enforced the CPF refund plus interests, she would have had even lesser left. This particular cousin, we actually have no blood relations.

 

 

 

no lei....the price of resale is set by the evaluator and according to hdb guidelines. Even if i want to sell my unit to my children i have to follow the evaluation and not suka suka set my own price. The only recourse is to give them back once the money is in my cpf which would mean the excess of the price i paid plus the interest due. Who set the resale price.......its not us for sure.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Showster

[Kusje]

I applaud your in depth analysis of the current conundrum set in motion and perpetuated by the incumbent since the inauguration of public housing.

 

That brings us to the point. Just because the system has over the years snared countless citizens into the large ponzi scheme to keep us working till 65yrs old and beyond in the name of productivity, does it mean that we should keep it going in perpetuality, just so as not to rock the boat?

 

There are no easy solutions, that I admit, but the current batch of policy makers are the least likely bunch to depend on to overhaul the system. We need fresh eyes and not just yes men/women.

 

Look, even the PM is telling us to accept our lot and just save to make it easier to survive. How's that coming from the TOP paid politician in the world.

He is the top paid politican but we always measure household income.

 

Many if us have forgotten to question how much ho jinx is making. Do you think it is less than hsien loong?

[Yeshe]

bro yeshe, pls read post #124 of this thread - you will realise you are ownself confusing ownself

 

every houseowner want their house price to go UP, not peg to subsidised price and stagnate for 99yr

whether public or pte resale, we let the free market decide the pricing, not peg to subsidised price

 

do you even understand simple concepts like free market policy and inflation?

 

 

 

 

 

bro scion, you may want to include pte housing price in your gauge

it seem to inflate at double or triple the rate of increase in food price over past decade

U sibeh confused. I m not referring to resell prices. I m talking about new hdb prices from gov. Who set those prices? Who even allow hdb to be resold on free mkt when it's public housing. U, me or gahmen? OK u got the answer.

[pegasi]

you have ownself answer ownself question

inflation is constantly at work, and our economy work by free market mechanism

 

govt is not going to sell you 2018 bto at 1970 price, as much as you dream of getting it cheap at 1970 price and later selling it high at 2018 price, it is not going to happen, what you are dreaming of is a fairy tale

 

back to reality, land costs building costs wages all increasing every year

 

will you accept your current pay same level as 1970?

even if your own pay stagnate for past 30yr, does that mean rest of economy have to slow down for you ?

 

eg you hope to buy a cup of coffee at 20cent now within your affordability, because rest of the world move on to 2018 pricing but your pay still 1970 level, but you can only afford to continue enjoy coffee at 1970 pricing 20cent

 

but who will sell coffee to you at 20cent now?

in simple words, your income growth is outpaced by inflation

 

you have lost in the rat race

 

no wonder PM say buyer want buy cheap

seller want sell high

hard to please such people

 

 

U sibeh confused. I m not referring to resell prices. I m talking about new hdb prices from gov. Who set those prices? Who even allow hdb to be resold on free mkt when it's public housing. U, me or gahmen? OK u got the answer.

Edited August 22, 2018 by pegasi

[Evillusion]

In short, the valuation is based on the recent transaction values of comparable units, decided by buyers and sellers.

 

HDB does not have internal valuation anymore. It's just too complex.

 

Your children pay back more and you draw out give them more. Really not an issue. The interests would have been gained anyway if you had not used it for HDB. But really advise against giving your children too much.

 

It's a protection mechanism against children who trick parents into giving them their hard-earned HDB. One of my relatives (no longer in contact) tricked my aunt into transferring HDB to his name and throwing his mother out. If HDB had not enforced the CPF refund plus interests, she would have had even lesser left. This particular cousin, we actually have no blood relations.

 

 

 

 

ya.....i know about this issue a long time ago. One of my parents' friend kana back in the 80s. Actually its not the son but the daughter-in-law........an example that i will always bear in mind. I was referring to such in an anecdotal point of view........

[Camrysfa]

your hdb slides and drops in value unless you cash out early .....

 

[Yeshe]

you have ownself answer ownself question

inflation is constantly at work, and our economy work by free market mechanism

 

govt is not going to sell you 2018 bto at 1970 price, as much as you dream of getting it cheap at 1970 price and later selling it high at 2018 price, it is not going to happen, what you are dreaming of is a fairy tale

 

back to reality, land costs building costs wages all increasing every year

 

will you accept your current pay same level as 1970?

even if your own pay stagnate for past 30yr, does that mean rest of economy have to slow down for you ?

 

eg you hope to buy a cup of coffee at 20cent now within your affordability, because rest of the world move on to 2018 pricing but your pay still 1970 level, but you can only afford to continue enjoy coffee at 1970 pricing 20cent

 

but who will sell coffee to you at 20cent now?

in simple words, your income growth is outpaced by inflation

 

you have lost in the rat race

 

no wonder PM say buyer want buy cheap

seller want sell high

hard to please such people

 

 

 

No point talk to u, because u like the gahmen, cannot listen.

[pegasi]

this chart shows a sharp drop in price for 60yr or older flats

 

wonder how this will change with the anticipated upcoming adjustments in cpf policies for aging hdb

 

 

your hdb slides and drops in value unless you cash out early .....

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by pegasi

[pegasi]

reality sucks

if your income is not growing faster than inflation, your real spending power diminish year on year

 

soon you find fresh grads earning bigger pay check than you

you scorn at these younger generation earning more than you

 

you wonder why you slog so many years still cant afford pte properties

you scorn at developers for pushing up prices

 

you look at rising price in hdb which young generation can afford but out of your reach

you scorn at govt for allowing market forces to determine price

 

you start to blame everyone else for your mishap

except for blaming yourself for not working hard enough and not being competitive enough compared to your peers, who climbed higher in the social ladder and leaving you behind

 

still hoping for coffee at 20cents, reminiscence of the good old 1970s

 

 

No point talk to u, because u like the gahmen, cannot listen.

Edited August 22, 2018 by pegasi

[Vratenza]

Cscbb is back! 

[RadX]

Cscbb is back! 

 

 

yup.

 

time ti negatize the person again...

shd be wasier now with 422 points

[Yeshe]

reality sucks

if your income is not growing faster than inflation, your real spending power diminish year on year

 

soon you find fresh grads earning bigger pay check than you

you scorn at these younger generation earning more than you

 

you wonder why you slog so many years still cant afford pte properties

you scorn at developers for pushing up prices

 

you look at rising price in hdb which young generation can afford but out of your reach

you scorn at govt for allowing market forces to determine price

 

you start to blame everyone else for your mishap

except for blaming yourself for not working hard enough and not being competitive enough compared to your peers, who climbed higher in the social ladder and leaving you behind

 

still hoping for coffee at 20cents, reminiscence of the good old 1970s

 

 

 

Well said, that's truly from you heart n no doubt the gahmen. The rest WILL be left behind unfortunately. Thks for showing your concern for me, thankfully I dun need to depend on the gahmen. I will still treat u to Starbucks if u cannot afford coffee at kopitiam next time.

 

Happy Haji

[pegasi]

dont worry

govt will leave no man behind

i trust our govt take care of all people

regardless of race language or religion

so as to achieve happiness, prosperity and progress for our nation

 

Well said, that's truly from you heart n no doubt the gahmen. The rest WILL be left behind unfortunately. Thks for showing your concern for me, thankfully I dun need to depend on the gahmen. I will still treat u to Starbucks if u cannot afford coffee at kopitiam next time.

 

Happy Haji

[RadX]

Deja vu

[pegasi]

Gearing up for Vers: Some flat owners want earlier rollout of new HDB scheme  

Published21 AUGUST, 2018

UPDATED 21 AUGUST, 2018

 

source: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/gearing-vers-some-flat-owners-want-earlier-rollout-new-hdb-scheme

 

 

 

SINGAPORE — A day after the new Voluntary Early Redevelopment Scheme (Vers) was announced, some residents in public housing estates that could be among the first in line are already wishing for the scheme to be introduced earlier.

 

Residents of Chai Chee and Marine Parade, especially the elderly, told TODAY they may not be able to benefit if the scheme is only rolled out about 20 years later, as Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said in his National Day Rally speech on Sunday (Aug 19).

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by pegasi

[pegasi]

‘It would be rash to rush into details now’

 

- Lawrence Wong on new housing policy VERS

 

 

21 Aug 2018 07:37PM

 (Updated: 

21 Aug 2018 11:46PM

 

 

Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/vers-housing-scheme-lawrence-wong-rash-to-rush-into-details-10638220

 

 

SINGAPORE: After the announcement of the new Voluntary Early Redevelopment Scheme (VERS) for HDB homes, some questions have emerged about it, including how much home owners might receive and whether all flats will be eligible for it.

“It would be rash to rush into details now when some of these things can only happen decades from now,” said National Development Minister Lawrence Wong on Tuesday (Aug 21) in an interview with Channel NewsAsia's Talking Point team.

 

“Let’s not get too excited about what is going to be in the VERS package or which flats will get VERS or speculate unnecessarily,” he said when asked about details of the scheme. 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by pegasi