New VERS scheme for aging HDB

[Jman888]

When my kids old enough to feed themselves, I don't mind having a fast death 

 

 

no wonder many 'kids' nowadays still depend on parents even at their 30s or 40s, cos they claim they can't feed themselves 

[Angcheek]

When my kids old enough to feed themselves, I don't mind having a fast death

See la ... who ask u misfired

[Kusje]

no wonder many 'kids' nowadays still depend on parents even at their 30s or 40s, cos they claim they can't feed themselves

Choy.

 

I will only feed until graduation and maybe 6 months buffer la. If course won't be so mean (like the ang most) to charge food and lodging but certainly not more pocket money.

[13177]

no wonder many 'kids' nowadays still depend on parents even at their 30s or 40s, cos they claim they can't feed themselves 

Kids nowadays in their 30s salary already quite high, still cannot feed themselves? Lol.

[Showster]

Kids nowadays in their 30s salary already quite high, still cannot feed themselves? Lol.

There are two divergent groups.

 

One group that quickly goes out to work earns very good salary in today’s wages.

 

One group can hang around for a pretty long time doing all kinds of things from daydreaming to MLMs.

[Angcheek]

Kids nowadays grew up with afew hundred thousand in their CPF credited ... 

[pegasi]

dont lament dont cry over lost milk

start working harder now dont let people see you no up

especially those younger and more successful than you

Edited August 21, 2018 by pegasi

[Camrysfa]

alamak. whole day sound like a broken record

[pegasi]

relax

 

alamak. whole day sound like a broken record

[Yeshe]

doesnt make sense to peg properties whether public or private, to the initial selling price

do you peg your current salary to your 1st pay check?

 

wat toking u in context of hdb subsized price shouldnt be at the current rate    

 

public housing is public housing, dun confuse with private. 

repeat after me, PUBLIC HOUSING.

 

just in case you forget what is public housing, let me refresh your memory.

 

[Showster]

HDB has evolved very much from its very early days.

 

But there are very good reasons for some of these changes.

 

The one that is most painful to some is the rise in price. Let's address it. Why did price have to go up?

 

Some of the reasons for the changes (especially related to price rise) are listed below. These are my own observations and interpretations. Please feel free to disagree.

 

 

1. Price of HDB resales is decided between buyers and sellers.

 

Govt only has direct control over the BTO price offered. Even if someone bought his HDB for $10,000, this will not deter him/her from selling at current market price of maybe $500,000. Therefore, even if Govt sells him/her for $1, the owner is still going to market his/her place at $500,000.

 

Relatively free market is more efficient and requires much less manpower to police. I know there were mentions of HDB taking over every single buying and selling transactions, but it will require HDB to probably triple its current manpower size just to manage the sheer numbers. Not practical and will mean more tax to be paid by all for these inefficient arrangements. Much more chances for mismatch between sellers and buyers overall.

 

 

2. Rising incomes.

 

If people's income rose and price stayed at 1980s level, there is going to be huge imbalance. We can choose to cap HDB BTO eligibility at the previous cap ($8000 household incomes), and therefore limit the numbers who are eligible to apply for BTO so as to limit the price offered, or increase the income cap to $12,000 to allow more people with higher household incomes to qualify as first time buyers, and therefore allow some flats to be offered at a higher price point corresponding to rising income.

 

Now what if we raise the income eligible for BTO, but yet offer BTO at yesterday's prices, and we end up with a huge surplus by many households. Isn't this great for everyone? On paper it is, but it is also likely to further widen the income inequality (don't forget that these $12,000 may continue to grow their incomes much faster than the bottom income earners especially if they are young), cause inflationary trends, and send many capable working couples into early retirement mode. What about national productivity? 

 

 

3. Having a potential "asset" to downgrade (for e.g. 4rm to 2rm), adopt lease buyback, sell, or rent in retirement years.

 

If HDB prices are artificially maintained very low, there will be very very few options when the mass retires, especially due to human nature, some of us have a tendency to prepare very little for old age (travelling, splurging on unnecessary big ticket items etc).

 

If HDB prices are that low, for these non-savers, there is nothing to downgrade to that will help release substantial funds, lease buyback will be worth very little, and selling won't generate much cash either to last any meaningful number of years. The only option is to rent out to generate some sustainable income. But even that can be expected to be very low if the cost of buying (or renting) from Govt is so small. For some of the non-savers, HDB is the last line of defence they could monetize for emergency, or if they got scammed, or if they can't work and still have to deal with different costs. 

 

4. Desire for a "better" neighborhood.

 

A lot of things we take for granted. But the modern mass has changed with regard to their preferences for the place they live in. But things like more considerate design (in carparks, lifts, walkways, staircases), aesthetic considerations, higher quality fittings, amenities and facilities plus maintenance, all these would be greatly appreciated by residents, and every one of them requires higher costs to provide.

 

Some people say just basic basic will do - no need any add ons unless absolutely necessary. But most residents are also quick to point out any shortcomings / issues in their place of residence and ask for more to be provided by authorities. Surely we have to adopt a more moderate ground to cater for everybody's modern needs?

 

Just how basic is basic? And what if people reject certain localities because of their sheer basic properties, and choose to pay a premium in another estate with that little bit more consideration?

 

wat toking u in context of hdb subsized price shouldnt be at the current rate    

 

public housing is public housing, dun confuse with private. 

repeat after me, PUBLIC HOUSING.

 

just in case you forget what is public housing, let me refresh your memory.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Showster

[Evillusion]

alamak. whole day sound like a broken record

wah....you damn atas.....still listening to vinyl lp....bet you using a high end sound system with this. Reminds of Internal Affairs.

[Evillusion]

HDB has evolved very much from its very early days.

 

But there are very good reasons for some of these changes.

 

The one that is most painful to some is the rise in price. Let's address it. Why did price have to go up?

 

Some of the reasons for the changes (especially related to price rise) are listed below. These are my own observations and interpretations. Please feel free to disagree.

 

 

1. Price of HDB resales is decided between buyers and sellers.

 

Govt only has direct control over the BTO price offered. Even if someone bought his HDB for $10,000, this will not deter him/her from selling at current market price of maybe $500,000. Therefore, even if Govt sells him/her for $1, the owner is still going to market his/her place at $500,000.

 

Relatively free market is more efficient and requires much less manpower to police. I know there were mentions of HDB taking over every single buying and selling transactions, but it will require HDB to probably triple its current manpower size just to manage the sheer numbers. Not practical and will mean more tax to be paid by all for these inefficient arrangements. Much more chances for mismatch between sellers and buyers overall.

 

 

2. Rising incomes.

 

If people's income rose and price stayed at 1980s level, there is going to be huge imbalance. We can choose to cap HDB BTO eligibility at the previous cap ($8000 household incomes), and therefore limit the numbers who are eligible to apply for BTO so as to limit the price offered, or increase the income cap to $12,000 to allow more people with higher household incomes to qualify as first time buyers, and therefore allow some flats to be offered at a higher price point corresponding to rising income.

 

Now what if we raise the income eligible for BTO, but yet offer BTO at yesterday's prices, and we end up with a huge surplus by many households. Isn't this great for everyone? On paper it is, but it is also likely to further widen the income inequality (don't forget that these $12,000 may continue to grow their incomes much faster than the bottom income earners especially if they are young), cause inflationary trends, and send many capable working couples into early retirement mode. What about national productivity?

 

 

3. Having a potential "asset" to downgrade (for e.g. 4rm to 2rm), adopt lease buyback, sell, or rent in retirement years.

 

If HDB prices are artificially maintained very low, there will be very very few options when the mass retires, especially due to human nature, some of us have a tendency to prepare very little for old age (travelling, splurging on unnecessary big ticket items etc).

 

If HDB prices are that low, for these non-savers, there is nothing to downgrade to that will help release substantial funds, lease buyback will be worth very little, and selling won't generate much cash either to last any meaningful number of years. The only option is to rent out to generate some sustainable income. But even that can be expected to be very low if the cost of buying (or renting) from Govt is so small. For some of the non-savers, HDB is the last line of defence they could monetize for emergency, or if they got scammed, or if they can't work and still have to deal with different costs.

 

4. Desire for a "better" neighborhood.

 

A lot of things we take for granted. But the modern mass has changed with regard to their preferences for the place they live in. But things like more considerate design (in carparks, lifts, walkways, staircases), aesthetic considerations, higher quality fittings, amenities and facilities plus maintenance, all these would be greatly appreciated by residents, and every one of them requires higher costs to provide.

 

Some people say just basic basic will do - no need any add ons unless absolutely necessary. But most residents are also quick to point out any shortcomings / issues in their place of residence and ask for more to be provided by authorities. Surely we have to adopt a more moderate ground to cater for everybody's modern needs?

 

Just how basic is basic? And what if people reject certain localities because of their sheer basic properties, and choose to pay a premium in another estate with that little bit more consideration?

no lei....the price of resale is set by the evaluator and according to hdb guidelines. Even if i want to sell my unit to my children i have to follow the evaluation and not suka suka set my own price. The only recourse is to give them back once the money is in my cpf which would mean the excess of the price i paid plus the interest due. Who set the resale price.......its not us for sure.

[Vratenza]

I applaud your in depth analysis of the current conundrum set in motion and perpetuated by the incumbent since the inauguration of public housing. 

 

That brings us to the point. Just because the system has over the years snared countless citizens into the large ponzi scheme to keep us working till 65yrs old and beyond in the name of productivity,  does it mean that we should keep it going in perpetuality, just so as not to rock the boat? 

 

There are no easy solutions, that I admit, but the current batch of policy makers are the least likely bunch to depend on to overhaul the system. We need fresh eyes and not just yes men/women. 

 

Look, even the PM is telling us to accept our lot and just save to make it easier to survive. How's that coming from the TOP paid politician in the world. 

 

HDB has evolved very much from its very early days.

 

But there are very good reasons for some of these changes.

 

The one that is most painful to some is the rise in price. Let's address it. Why did price have to go up?

 

Some of the reasons for the changes (especially related to price rise) are listed below. These are my own observations and interpretations. Please feel free to disagree.

 

 

1. Price of HDB resales is decided between buyers and sellers.

 

Govt only has direct control over the BTO price offered. Even if someone bought his HDB for $10,000, this will not deter him/her from selling at current market price of maybe $500,000. Therefore, even if Govt sells him/her for $1, the owner is still going to market his/her place at $500,000.

 

Relatively free market is more efficient and requires much less manpower to police. I know there were mentions of HDB taking over every single buying and selling transactions, but it will require HDB to probably triple its current manpower size just to manage the sheer numbers. Not practical and will mean more tax to be paid by all for these inefficient arrangements. Much more chances for mismatch between sellers and buyers overall.

 

 

2. Rising incomes.

 

If people's income rose and price stayed at 1980s level, there is going to be huge imbalance. We can choose to cap HDB BTO eligibility at the previous cap ($8000 household incomes), and therefore limit the numbers who are eligible to apply for BTO so as to limit the price offered, or increase the income cap to $12,000 to allow more people with higher household incomes to qualify as first time buyers, and therefore allow some flats to be offered at a higher price point corresponding to rising income.

 

Now what if we raise the income eligible for BTO, but yet offer BTO at yesterday's prices, and we end up with a huge surplus by many households. Isn't this great for everyone? On paper it is, but it is also likely to further widen the income inequality (don't forget that these $12,000 may continue to grow their incomes much faster than the bottom income earners especially if they are young), cause inflationary trends, and send many capable working couples into early retirement mode. What about national productivity? 

 

 

3. Having a potential "asset" to downgrade (for e.g. 4rm to 2rm), adopt lease buyback, sell, or rent in retirement years.

 

If HDB prices are artificially maintained very low, there will be very very few options when the mass retires, especially due to human nature, some of us have a tendency to prepare very little for old age (travelling, splurging on unnecessary big ticket items etc).

 

If HDB prices are that low, for these non-savers, there is nothing to downgrade to that will help release substantial funds, lease buyback will be worth very little, and selling won't generate much cash either to last any meaningful number of years. The only option is to rent out to generate some sustainable income. But even that can be expected to be very low if the cost of buying (or renting) from Govt is so small. For some of the non-savers, HDB is the last line of defence they could monetize for emergency, or if they got scammed, or if they can't work and still have to deal with different costs. 

 

4. Desire for a "better" neighborhood.

 

A lot of things we take for granted. But the modern mass has changed with regard to their preferences for the place they live in. But things like more considerate design (in carparks, lifts, walkways, staircases), aesthetic considerations, higher quality fittings, amenities and facilities plus maintenance, all these would be greatly appreciated by residents, and every one of them requires higher costs to provide.

 

Some people say just basic basic will do - no need any add ons unless absolutely necessary. But most residents are also quick to point out any shortcomings / issues in their place of residence and ask for more to be provided by authorities. Surely we have to adopt a more moderate ground to cater for everybody's modern needs?

 

Just how basic is basic? And what if people reject certain localities because of their sheer basic properties, and choose to pay a premium in another estate with that little bit more consideration?

 

[Scion]

Thats why most youngsters nowadays spending power so high, since they earn so high. Starting pay 4k to 5k even higher than many people who have worked for many many years and yet maybe still around this salary range?! 

 

must consider inflation lah

 

i always use chicken rice as a gauge

 

in the late 90s, chicken rice was $2.50, fresh uni grads avg pay was 2.5k (about 100x)

 

now, chicken rice is $3.50-$4, fresh grads avg pay is 3.5k (on par or cannot keep up with inflation liao)

[Scion]

median income growth in past 10yr 2007 to 2017 is 6% per annum

if your yearly increment is below 6%, you will lose out to fresh grads in due time

 

 

btw where did you get this 6% figure?

 

it's avg nominal of 3-4% according to http://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Income-Summary-Table.aspx

 

[pegasi]

bro yeshe, pls read post #124 of this thread - you will realise you are ownself confusing ownself 

 

every houseowner want their house price to go UP, not peg to subsidised price and stagnate for 99yr

whether public or pte resale, we let the free market decide the pricing, not peg to subsidised price

 

do you even understand simple concepts like free market policy and inflation?

 

wat toking u in context of hdb subsized price shouldnt be at the current rate    

 

public housing is public housing, dun confuse with private. 

repeat after me, PUBLIC HOUSING.

 

just in case you forget what is public housing, let me refresh your memory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

bro scion, you may want to include pte housing price in your gauge

it seem to inflate at double or triple the rate of increase in food price over past decade

 

must consider inflation lah

 

i always use chicken rice as a gauge

 

in the late 90s, chicken rice was $2.50, fresh uni grads avg pay was 2.5k (about 100x)

 

now, chicken rice is $3.50-$4, fresh grads avg pay is 3.5k (on par or cannot keep up with inflation liao)

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by pegasi

[Scion]

last time the good policies all went haywire liao

 

居者有其屋 - but your flats' lease will run down to zero

贩者有其摊 - rental fees going up up up

商者有其店 - same with rental fees, plus monopolised by the big property developers