Pastor

[Tony76]

she quite chio...got give 1 on 1 lesson on bible bo?

[Blackseal]

you might as well as say 28k is just peanuts ad 2.8million is a thai coconut.. no big deal..

 

 

It's no big deal as long as it's their own $$$....they can afford it...u cannot afford that kind of expenses.... so what ? Blame the world, blame the cow...or blame god ? Wanna kpkb first must have the $$$ to match or better their expenses...otherwise people throw coconut husks at u for making so much noise for no reason...

[Alechi]

agree ... somewhat

[Altivo]

interesting allegations in the Asiaone forum.

 

Seems like part of the tithe which was meant for the building fund was channelled to a MPF - multi purpose fund which was then usd for other purposes other than the original intended purpose... all w/o the knowlege of the contributors.

 

Now some CHC members are questioning if the MPF was used to support horsey's lifesylte in US

 

 

http://forums.asiaone.com/showpost.php?p=4...;postcount=3642

 

Touchstone, Melvin Chen

 

Thanks to you guys, I spent the whole day gathering my evidences on this MPF, it is as certain as death and taxes. I've contacted and met with the relevant authorities and have submitted to them the receipts and even the UOB bank account number that is link to the Multi Purpose Fund. Really thank God that more and more people are brave enough to stand up to expose this truth.

 

Actually, I've learnt that Serina Wee's laptop was already confiscated on the first day she was called in, so the email receipts are easily retrievable. I just need to help them join the dots. Should I give the names of those who are involved?

 

Touchstone and Melvin, I hope you know by now I am not just a talker.

I am doing you guys and the rest of the innocent CHC members a favor to uncover this wrongdoing while you guys sit in this forum and pathetically declare war with everyone who doesn't agree with what the church is doing.

 

And Touchstone, I know my profession well enough and manage my client's financial investment with great care, unlike the leadership of CHC now, hiding behind non-disclosure terms and lawyer's advices. Yes they are helpless now because they don't want to say anything that will get Ps Kong and Ps Sun into trouble. So I doubt they will tell you anything about "MPF" even if you mail them or ask them directly.

 

Touchstone and Melvin, you can choose to disbelieve and celebrate your dreams. I just feel sad that once again, the precious members of CHC will not hear the truth from their leader's mouth and have to wait for the statement from CAD and the media as they pull the carpet off and show you what is truly underneath.

 

To the rest of you in CHC who still have your cognitive faculties besides speaking in tongues, you should prepare your heart and make plans for what is about to come. Don't live in denial, the PR and crisis management of the church is almost non-existence and with guys like Touchstone and Melvin being the "spokesmen" of CHC, the future is bleak.

 

So I've heard, the EM meeting is nothing more than a prayer meeting. No information is given, no Q&A. Just praying in tongues and begging God to help keep the unity of the church. From the tone of my friends who are still in CHC, it seem like this may just be their last few bonding moments with Ps Kong. Very sad.

 

Sigh

 

P/S: I have also told them to look at your posts and i hope you genuinely didn't know about this MPF, otherwise God bless you for trying to hide the truth...

[Felipe]

Check this out. Wrote by a whistle blower.

http://zh.sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/400842

--->

 

With this relevation, we can read Soren's post in a better perspective now...

 

sorenk2233

Today, 12:35 AM

1. Miss Ho Yeow Sun's entourage includes two dancers. They can be seen dancing in Miss Ho's recent music video, Fancy Free. These dancers are instructors of O School, which is funded by City College (that gets funds from City Harvest). These dance instructors are residing in the United States, residing in Miss Ho's Los Angeles home. This brings to question if City Harvest is indirectly paying for Miss Ho's dancers.

 

2. Xtron Productions have several employees who are board and executive members. Several on its payroll hold positions of leadership in the audio, lighting and media ministries. In November 2009, Rev. Kong Hee had a speaking engagement to Sacramento, California, several church employees (worship band, singers, and media personnel) were flown there with all expenses paid by the Church. In addition to that, Xtron employees were involved in the trip. If the speaking engagement was for the benefit of Rev. Kong, the question is, who pays for the cost to fly and accommodate his entourage?

 

It is known that Rev. Kong is not a salaried employee of City Harvest church. He relies on speaking engagement fees, love gifts and the royalties of his sermons and bible study material. However, how does the church draw the line between his personal speaking engagements and his service on behalf of the church? Also, why the need for Xtron employees to be part of the trip if this was promoted to church members as a missions trip? For many of Rev. Kong's international speaking engagement, there is an employee from Xtron present to take photographs and record videos. Is City Harvest Church paying for the services or is the Reverend absorbing the costs?

 

sorenk2233

Today, 09:25 AM

May those who have read my comments and felt there is validity in it share the burden I have. I have been very careful in my choice of words and tone by which I make my comments. I could have given the names of the owners of Xtron Produtions, who are board and executive members. Unfortunately, my position does not permit or grant me the liberty to be a whistle blower.

 

Please understand that I am caught between a rock and a hard place. In 2003, when Roland Poon pointed out the church's support of Miss Ho's singing career, I witness the ugliness of hate. However, at the same time, I saw the pain in the eyes of church members who were deeply affected by the media slaughter of the church.

 

Over the course of days, I question if this was the right time to disclose the information that I have given. Why? Because many of the employees of Xtron, City College, Citycare, Little Big, O School, and along with the staff of City Harvest Church are fully aware of what goes on behind the scenes. Many have families with young children and mortgages and car payments to worry about. There are a large number of individuals dependent on how this system works. Sadly, it is snowballing into something monstrous.

 

From my heart,

Soren

 

Quite a lot of details there but I see problems if one were to say this is the final nail on the coffin.

 

1. CHC can simply argue City College is free to use the funds for whatever purposes. And in this case, they chose to sponsor the dance instructors trip to the US in support of another up and coming dancer, Sun.

 

2. It seems wrong to me that CHC is paying a company to support KH on his own private speaking engagements. KH should bear these expenses. But it's still not like a smoking gun to me unless CHC gives him extra money on top of what he receives from his speaking engagement. Maybe CHC can argue they want to support KH in his own private business.

[Felipe]

FYI (It's lengthy but it's a good read)

 

http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?p=433067#post433067

 

An analysis into the wealth of City Harvest Church

City Harvest Church(CHC) has been the talk of the town this week. Although I am aware that City Harvest is one of the richest churches in Singapore, I am still shocked that it is rich enough to pay SGD310 million for a stake in Suntec City. Nevertheless, an entity which is able to amass such wealth is certainly worth studying. I was determined to understand the secrets to the church's wealth.

 

Below is what I gathered.

 

1. Clever packaging of Sunday services

The income of a church is dependent on the tithes collected (10% of income from church-members). Therefore, the earning power of a church is highly dependent on its ability to retain its existing church members and attract new ones. The larger the church membership, the greater its earnings.

 

I watched a sample of CHC weekend service on its website. Compared to the boring Sunday classes I attended as a kid, CHC church service was most refreshing (Watch "The 10 Laws Of The Harvest"). The beginning part resembles a rock concert with good singing and enthusiastic audience. It is an entertaining way to enjoy your Sunday mornings. Going to church becomes a weekly event to look forward to rather than a chore to attend to.

 

With church services so well packaged for its customers, its customer retention rate and new customer acquisition figures should look good.

 

2. Extra revenue in the form of advertisements, sales of CDs

This church is unlike the other churches I know. It generates extra revenue through advertisements during its Sunday service(watch the videos). It sells audio CDs on its website. There is an online shopping cart for convenience to those who want to buy online.

 

3. Efficient collection of tithes

Church-members can pay their tithe online via credit card, eNets or even Giro!! Once members started donating using Giro, the earnings quality of the church improves. Donation collected via Giro tend to be more stable.

 

With a globalised economy, people travel round the world a lot and may miss Sunday services. In the past, the churches will lose income when these members fail to turn up to pay their tithe. Now, with online payment, they can continue collecting the tithe even when the church-member is working overseas for an extended period of time. With Giro, the church can continue collecting tithes for a few more months even when the member leaves the church as people have a habit of forgetting what they pay on Giro.

 

4. 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your church donations

This is where the genius of CHC lies and the secret to its superior earning power. In fact, I have yet to encounter any public-listed company on SGX, HKSE, NYSE, Nasdaq that demonstrates better potential.

 

The pastor preaches that God will give 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your tithe. But, you have to be generous in your donations first so that you will receive in harvest proportions. I guess that is the origin of the name City Harvest. Please watch the video "The 10 Laws Of The Harvest" yourself in its entirety and interpret for yourself.

 

It is a message that cleverly uses an astute understanding of human nature to maximize profits. If I were a CHC member, I will be tempted to increase my tithe as much as possible. Not mincing my words, I am doing it out of pure greed. I do not think I will be alone.

 

5. Quality of customers

With the 100-fold return message, the kind of church members attracted will be most conducive to profit-making. Money-minded people will be attracted to the church. These money-minded people tend to be ambitious and have a great desire to make lots of money. Millionaire minds have a higher chance to become rich. Hence, the quality of customers that CHC attracts are of the highest quality. The richer the church-member, the higher is the church's tithe per member.

 

Customer quality will be enhanced through the passage of time due to survivor bias. Suppose out of this pool of Millionaire-Mind Christians, 50% become satisfactorily rich and the remaining 50% still unsatisfactorily middle-class. The 50% who got rich will donate even more because they think their source of wealth comes from their donations. It is most unlikely they will cut back on their tithes because they will be afraid God will punish them by cutting back the returns. If they are not afraid, the church will be there to warn them not to do so. The remaining 50% who did not get rich will be disillusioned and probably leave the church. The loss is of little significance to the church. These people are not rich and their tithes will not amount to much.

 

Many Christians will be disgusted with the concept of using tithes to get rich. These people will probably leave the church after attending a few Sunday services. Again, the loss is of little significance to CHC. These people will not be highly profitable to the church even if they are rich because they are not going to tithe as much as the others who believe their tithes is the way to wealth.

 

To the credit of the Pastor, I think he has devised a wonderful process of filtering out non-profitable customers and sucking in the lucrative ones. There is only so much physical space that a church can have to service its church-members. To maximize profits, the church has to ensure that each unit of space is used for servicing lucrative customers.

 

6. Kill off competition

 

CHC has tremendous economic moat that kills off competition. In the video "The 10 Laws of The Harvest", the Pastor cited Law #5 "Your Seed must be planted in Good Ground" which is an effective weapon in killing off his competition - the smaller churches. Many Christians feel that they ought to donate to the needy, smaller churches rather than rich mega-churches like CHC. The Pastor's argument is that you do not get good returns like 100-fold in the small churches. You have to donate to mega-churches to maximize returns on your tithe because they have a track record (rich church members). In other words, the seed is not planted in good ground when you donate to the small churches. In his own words, "I don't always give to the neediest but to the ground that will give the greatest yield". To illustrate his point, he used an analogy on weak banks and strong banks. You do not deposit your money in a weak bank because it desperately needs fresh funds to survive. You deposit your money in a strong bank which invests your money wisely and yields good returns.

 

The church has an iron-grip on its members who believe its message. As illustrated previously, its customer base is of the highest quality. This is its track record. Existing church-members will definitely not move to another smaller, needier church with poorer track record.

It has a very strong economic moat as it is very hard for its competitors to get its customers to switch over.

 

7. Providing a place where the rich can network

 

As the Pastor said, his church provides a good ground on which you can grow your riches. Rightly so, indeed. For property agents or insurance agents trying to hit their sales quota, City Harvest Church will be an ideal place to hunt for lucrative clients. This church concentrates several rich and money-minded people into a single location. The church offers a unique advantage to sell things. In a religious setting, people tend less to be on their guard and can be more easily persuaded to part with their money.

 

Businessmen also like to network in places where there are rich and powerful people who will come in handy in future. The Pastor has done a good job in gathering such people in his church and it makes good sense to make use of this advantage by joining the church.

 

The rich will attract more rich and the gathering moss snowballs to provide an ever-rising pool of donation to the church.

 

8. Preach what people like to hear.

 

As a teenager, I was discouraged when I read Bible verses like Matthew 19:23-24 "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." and Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth."

 

It seems like if I become rich, I will be condemned to hell.

 

In the video "Rich God? Poor God?", the Pastor preaches that it is absolutely ok to be rich. Some prophets of God were very rich. (Abraham, David, Solomon)

 

There is nothing more musical to a money-minded person than to hear that God is on your side in your pursuit of money. The church-members who are more money-minded will love this and donate even more.

 

9. God pays for the returns, not the church.

 

The church collects the money, but God pays for the 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns. The church does not need to pay a single cent for the returns on the donations.

This is as good as you do the work for me, but not only do I not pay you, I shall also collect your salary. You toil and sweat, but I shall eat your bread. God must surely be a miracle worker and people will pay handsomely for his service. I cannot think of a more advantageous economic position to be in to be able to collect money rendered by a miracle worker.

 

10. Social pressure to conform in church settings and ease of influence

 

If everyone around you donates, it is hard not to. When everyone else makes sacrifice, the one who does not will look like an outcast. There is tremendous pressure to conform in such a herd setting.

 

11. Tremendous future earning power

 

Take a look at the congregation and you will notice the large number of young people. The income growth of young people is the fastest in the population. In the Pastor's words, "You may be poor today, but you will not be poor all your life". That is a long-term business plan in cultivating its customers.

 

Therefore, if CHC can be viewed as a growth stock, its prospects are very bright as its young customers will accelerate its earnings.

 

12. Stable earnings in times of depression

 

Besides being a growth stock, CHC can also be viewed as a defensive and safe stock. People pray hardest when they fall in hard times. Strangely, some people have an urge to tithe when they are in financial troubles.

 

In fact, in the video (The 10 Laws Of The Harvest), a couple came on stage. They talked about the dire straits they were in when they started out. Things change when God challenged them to GIVE themselves out of poverty (exact words from the speaker). Despite not having any money, they still pledged $250 to the building fund. In his own words again, "we often emptied our savings to give to the House of God knowing that this will be the answer to our financial problems". Hence, not only will the church earnings be stable in times of depression, it may even grow.

 

13. Turning Christianity into a universal religion for mankind

 

The Pastor preaches Prosperity Gospel which resolves around money. His business genius lies in choosing this theme for his church. By doing so, he has turned Christianity into a universal religion for mankind. This is because everyone worships money regardless of race, culture, age, gender, sexual orientation. In a fell swoop, he has enlarged his market to cover the entire world. It is much easier to convert people to your belief by dangling money and promising great prosperity. After all, who does not love money?

 

By enlarging his potential market catchment with a greater chance of increasing membership, more donations will flow in.

 

 

14. Tax benefits as church is registered as a charity

 

This creates a huge, unfair advantage compared to all other businesses. This is what landed CHC in controversy. Enough has been said.

 

If one day the Pastor switches to become a businessman, I will definitely consider investing in the company that he heads and founds.

 

If City Harvest Church is listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange, I will certainly buy it. It will be one stock that I am confident of hitting a return of 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns.

 

PS: People tend not to question critically when it comes to religion. A charming smooth talker can easily sway minds with his interpretation of the Bible. In the final analysis, Faith is about simply believing. You cannot approach it scientifically because there is no way to test religious theories using the scientific method. We will only know the real truth when judgment day comes.

 

The danger is that there is no accountability on the part of the preacher on whether his teachings are true or not. Even he himself cannot be sure that his interpretations is 100% correct. Given human nature, the interpretations will tend to be self-serving. In fact, it is not only dangerous to the students but to the teacher as well. People will believe their own lies if it yields tempting benefits. That was how Wall Street drank its own Kool-Aid.

 

While I respect the Pastor for his business savvy, I cannot agree with his interpretations of the Bible. I pray for good health, peace and harmony for my family. Money-minded as I am, I am not comfortable with commercializing my relationship with God by asking for money. The Christian God that I know from my own reading of the Bible is not 财神爷. Of course, if God wants to drop money from heaven on me, I will be more than happy to embrace it.

 

 

 

[Damienic]

http://forums.asiaone.com/showpost.php?p=4...;postcount=3642

 

Touchstone, Melvin Chen

 

Thanks to you guys, I spent the whole day gathering my evidences on this MPF, it is as certain as death and taxes. I've contacted and met with the relevant authorities and have submitted to them the receipts and even the UOB bank account number that is link to the Multi Purpose Fund. Really thank God that more and more people are brave enough to stand up to expose this truth.

 

Actually, I've learnt that Serina Wee's laptop was already confiscated on the first day she was called in, so the email receipts are easily retrievable. I just need to help them join the dots. Should I give the names of those who are involved?

 

Touchstone and Melvin, I hope you know by now I am not just a talker.

I am doing you guys and the rest of the innocent CHC members a favor to uncover this wrongdoing while you guys sit in this forum and pathetically declare war with everyone who doesn't agree with what the church is doing.

 

And Touchstone, I know my profession well enough and manage my client's financial investment with great care, unlike the leadership of CHC now, hiding behind non-disclosure terms and lawyer's advices. Yes they are helpless now because they don't want to say anything that will get Ps Kong and Ps Sun into trouble. So I doubt they will tell you anything about "MPF" even if you mail them or ask them directly.

 

Touchstone and Melvin, you can choose to disbelieve and celebrate your dreams. I just feel sad that once again, the precious members of CHC will not hear the truth from their leader's mouth and have to wait for the statement from CAD and the media as they pull the carpet off and show you what is truly underneath.

 

To the rest of you in CHC who still have your cognitive faculties besides speaking in tongues, you should prepare your heart and make plans for what is about to come. Don't live in denial, the PR and crisis management of the church is almost non-existence and with guys like Touchstone and Melvin being the "spokesmen" of CHC, the future is bleak.

 

So I've heard, the EM meeting is nothing more than a prayer meeting. No information is given, no Q&A. Just praying in tongues and begging God to help keep the unity of the church. From the tone of my friends who are still in CHC, it seem like this may just be their last few bonding moments with Ps Kong. Very sad.

 

Sigh

 

P/S: I have also told them to look at your posts and i hope you genuinely didn't know about this MPF, otherwise God bless you for trying to hide the truth...

 

This darkknight is one of the whistle blower?? Things sure sound damn serious...

[Niteblu]

Pokyman. Kudos for the extensive and well researched write-up.

Ironically, this singular post of yours can likely more accurate than the half-truths, and contextually misappropriated messages some "pastors" in their "mega-churches" expound during their "sermons".

 

Felipe. That's an interesting perspective on the function/methodology of CHC, truer than some might admit.

 

I'm reluctant to even use the word Christian & Church in association with these mega-churches.

As CHC & NCC appear sometimes as vessels employing the superficial veil of Christianity, to further their worldly pursuits here in this lifetime. But don't take my word for it.

It's but my slight understanding of their doctrine/methods.

 

For others looking on - please don't lose faith in Christianity.

There is nothing material nor self-serving rooted in Christianity, Jesus and the belief.

As Christians - we are called serve others, regardless of religion - Muslims, Buddhists, Freethinkers.

And in doing so celebrate God, and all of creation.

 

Towards the concept of tithing.

In giving, we don't even have to restrict ourselves to the worldly concept of currency.

Giving of ourselves & our time, whether it's to the less-fortunate or in church missions/functions.

Is giving all the same.

 

And in giving, nothing should be expected in return.

There is no equivalent ROI formula.

For the act of giving, is a gift in itself.

 

Hope this time lends itself for healing & greater understanding.

Within the CHC community & outside looking in.

Keep an open mind to all that is happening.

 

The rich, the poor we all come to the same rest, leaving it all behind.

Riches, wealth, luxury - all of it is transient.

 

Irrespective of what religious association/belief you hail from.

When all else fails, go back to the fundamental calling within all of us.

To seek the truth, and see past the distractions of the world.

Whether for richer or poorer, that's all periphery.

We are all called to be better people, like saints to our loved ones, and even to strangers.

At the heart of it. it's a massive challenge, to me & to many i know.

and it'll always continue to be...

 

Fight the good fight.

 

Edited June 22, 2010 by Niteblu

[Felipe]

This darkknight is one of the whistle blower?? Things sure sound damn serious...

i went through more than 20 pages in that forum and some of the allegations were damning. i won't post anymore from there due to the sensitivity of their comments. Those keen can start from p.340.

[Mockngbrd]

this is all well...now.. the most impt question is...

 

can i have just 0.1% of whatever is in the MPF?

 

[Mockngbrd]

i went through more than 20 pages in that forum and some of the allegations were damning. i won't post anymore from there due to the sensitivity of their comments. Those keen can start from p.340.

 

Got link?

[Freestylers09]

4. 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your church donations

This is where the genius of CHC lies and the secret to its superior earning power. In fact, I have yet to encounter any public-listed company on SGX, HKSE, NYSE, Nasdaq that demonstrates better potential.

 

wah even TH also dont dare to compromise such folds..

 

this statement more 'big hole' than James P?

[Altivo]

i went through more than 20 pages in that forum and some of the allegations were damning. i won't post anymore from there due to the sensitivity of their comments. Those keen can start from p.340.

 

indeed... it's very exciting watching the drama unfold. Every other minute, new allegations are posted and new s--t uncovered!

 

[Freestylers09]

indeed... it's very exciting watching the drama unfold. Every other minute, new allegations are posted and new s--t uncovered!

 

 

nicest drama in local showbizz

[Edminski]

A CHC member me this before in my face :

I am quoting this phrase without missing a single word from her

"If you dont believe in god, you will go to hell"

 

 

Also heard that many people from CHC contributed average 20% of their income. These people ended up no $ to give allowance to parents.

 

 

A BIG question :

Did Sun Ho contribute $28k per month to her church?

 

[Darryn]

"If you dont believe in god, you will go to hell"

 

Actually Christians that say such things is quite funny...if dun believe in God, then dun believe in hell so doesn't matter right?

 

May as well say back to them....if you do believe in the flying Pink Cookie Monster you will be sentenced to an afterlife of cleaning Snagglepusses poop! With Hong Kong Phooey beating you on alternate Tuesdays.

[Kxbc]

A CHC member me this before in my face :

I am quoting this phrase without missing a single word from her

"If you dont believe in god, you will go to hell"

My reply may be: But I do believe in God. My God is the Monkey God (add other gods you believe in eg Kuan Yin, Allah, Hindu gods, other Taoist gods).

[Kxbc]

double

Edited June 23, 2010 by Kxbc