Today crazy coe

[Swordwind]

Yes I see ur point, while I agree that COE is an additional tax to deter people from buying cars, the fact remains that now well paid FTs can afford cars. I walked past a Pinoy vacuuming his 'new' Suuki Swift Sports and he gave me an arrogant smirk as though he is the only one owning a car..wtf do we need such people around..

 

The feeling of sharing our land with these arrogant folks while we grovel in 'poverty'..is indeed hard to stomach...

 

personally, i definitely have my walls up against these so-called FT, having witness how this country have morphed to where it is now over the past decade. however, i happen to be working with many of them. and to be honest, some of them do deserve our respect. a cocky person is a cocky person, regardless of their nationality. are we going to propose putting those ASK (ah sia kia) or ah bengs to exile? for i bliv their "cockiness" is a few league ahead for this case. haha.. to me, it's not just about money (many have shared their pov on these FT coming over just for money). well, as singaporean, u can also venture into elsewhere, which can almost guarantee 50% income increment (for certain industries + after tax) with big house big car. why not take it, just for the money? fact remains, working overseas require many sacrifices and determination. maybe tt's why those successful ones hold their pride high up?

 

back to the issue on COE, i bliv the gov took a wrong move by allowing for more cars back then by bringing down the COE. yes, it did gave us about a decade of slightly "more balanced psychology" on car ownership (imagine COE staying at 90k region since the last peak!). however, it created the current problem, whereby congestion on the roads are forcing the gov to use the COE to curb more buyers, resulting in the ppl lamenting on this and having a hard time accepting the sudden hike. fyi, i happen to get my car earlier this year before the hike. and if i, a rather fresh grad at that time, can afford a car after a year of saving + planning, then something is definitely wrong with the system. compared to other leading cities in the world, what are the percentage of the work force being able to afford driving within the city? haha.. bitter medicine.

 

 

[Proton_neutron]

if your think the roads are currently badly jammed up, well, at least, our jams aren't as long as those in other cities (note that i'm comparing cities, rather than countries), which can last for more than 3hrs at a stretch.....

 

if you want a reduction of traffic jams, there are only 2 solutions to solve it at the moment.....

 

a) Increase the number of roads.....

b) Take away cars from the road....

 

but what the authorities are doing is, instead of allowing an annual car growth of 3% from past years, it's been 'reduced' to 1.5%.... though its halved, they're still allowing for growth.....

 

as for the COE quotas being pegged to the number of cars scrapped for the past 6 months, that's a 1-to-1 replacement new car for every old car deregistered.....

 

ERP works with the same principle as COE..... majority wouldn't feel they'd make sense in paying for using the road during a certain time, when its free to use on the others..... so they'll wait till the ERP operating hours are over, then travel out. Which makes it the same as without ERP.... ERP just shifts the peak hours earlier in the morning, and later in the evening.....

 

With news of "Pay-as-you-use" scheme, that would be a better bet..... everyone gets their fair share of more taxes, regardless of the time they use the road...... macham like having a charging meter in your car liddat......

[Vhtfhwlego]

- Chinese: Mazda 6MPS (new)

Hey, I am quite keen to gather MPS drivers.

Can reveal the plate number for me?

 

[Sleepy-T]

heng i buy my car earlier....else another $30k....hmmm i should sell

I dun think it matter much for ur car type

[Jtay]

but what the authorities are doing is, instead of allowing an annual car growth of 3% from past years, it's been 'reduced' to 1.5%.... though its halved, they're still allowing for growth.....

 

yes, i agree on this. the roads will continue to increasingly more congested. it doesn't matter whether the COE is $40k, 80K or even 100k because the overall vehicle population is increasing. i wonder how long will LTA continue this policy of having vehicle growth. maybe as what SM goh said, zero vehicle growth is the way to go in future.

 

"From CNA, 6 Sept:

 

Another idea worth considering in managing transport woes is to have a "zero vehicular traffic growth".

 

"Let the COE take care of the number for cars on the road so when the number of cars cannot grow when the COE is so high then the roads will be freer so it's a combination of high COEs and low ERP.

 

"But we have opted in the last 10 years or so to give Singaporeans the 4 wheels so we have opted for 3 per cent growth in vehicle population and therefore use ERP to tweak it because one can argue that's fairer." he said.

 

The question is to decide which is the best way forward, said the Senior Minister. "

[Vhtfhwlego]

My 2 cents ..

 

Cars in Singapore is more of a "want" rather than a "need". I agree with some people that needs to drive a car for work and a car would be a "need".

 

We have a "good" public transport system and it works well for most of us. I agree with the cut of the COE to reduce the congestion on the road. The car population has to be controlled else our traffic will be like the traffic in Manila, Jakarta or Bangkok.

However, the drivers in MNL, JKT & BKK handles vehicle way better then us.

And if that you drove in those countries adding Taiwan & China in, you will understand how local drivers fare.

 

[Kar_lover]

I like your argument Sell high buy high.

That's true for people who has a car now. This group will not worry about coe up or down, as the old car will worth something when it's time to replace with a new one 5years down the road.

 

The beauty of COE system in Singapore is really a non issue for existing car owners as the replacement cost of the expensive new car, will be equally conceded by the high resale value of old car! Nett nett, will not have much effect.

Meaning if New car COE were to up by $30k suddenly, then the second hand car market will also reprice the old cars at a $30k premiums higher.

 

this thread (understandably) running very fast but would just like to comment on above.

 

Whilst there is some truth in it, i dun tink its the whole of the truth.

 

Lets look at the car dealers, with less COEs, they sell less cars every month. However, their overheads remain more or less the same. Hence with each quota revision doing downward, they need to increase the margin for each car they sell as these overheads are now being paid by a smaller amount of cars being sold. Not to mention with each sales exec now able to sell fewer cars, dealer might need to increase their commission (or increase their basic salary) in order for them to take a reasonable pay home. So selling price of the car will increase to cover the overheads and (maybe) commission on top of the increase in COE.

 

For us, existing car owners, yes we have better resale value but not in proportion to the rise in new car price. So the sell high buy high has limited application and probably more relevant if u sell ur car to buy another second hand car. my Koup was $66k when COE was $20K. before yesterday's results, COE was $34k but my car was selling at $85k (notice how the price had gone up by $19k when COE only go up by $14k as per my paragraph above?). If i sell my car now, i will probably break even (i.e. no need to top up) but a new replacement car will be crazy! today's ST reported altis was $97k and camry is $138k. How to sell high buy high?? Someone was even saying picanto will hit $80k. Would be better to just keep my Koup right? If i had extra money, i would buy a 1 yr old golf 1.4 sport TSI which is going for around $95k rather than a new altis.

 

I ve heard before dat ppl who buy car become stuck with it although they dun want it cos they unable to sell as they can't afford the top up of the balance loan. I would say this is the group that may benefit from this which is the group of ppl who want to exit car ownership - they can now sell of their car without much top up. who knows maybe can even get money back.

 

 

[Kangadrool]

provided it's a popular make/model. Otherwise, it's as difficult to sell as before.

[Karebu]

When u r younger, u r prone to be more hot blooded, less responsible n more passionate. You have more room for error due to a faster reflex, psychologically more willing to take risk.

 

That is statistics, n insurance companies are not stupid, they have professional actuarers To calculate risks

 

 

maturity does not come with age.

 

statistics often are manipulated to show what you want to see. they will say anything to pump up premiums, particularly young and can drive = rich family -> must milk

[Mustank]

hmmmm.....cheap ciggis.......like ang hun?

 

my old uncle used to smoke ang hun in a shelock holmes pipe and his ah lao hat damm funny man!!

[Maroon5]

I don't feel that Singaporeans, in general, are freaking rich. While economy is improving and some people make windfalls from stock market, these are exceptions. I believe the increasing # of premium cars on the road and people's willingness to pay for high COE premium is partially due to:

 

- High acceptance for 7-10 years car loan with minimal down-payment (ie enjoy today with future money)

- Ppl are so competitive that car ownership is a social status (compare house, car, income, handphone?)

- Appreciation of property prices led ppl to believe that they can afford a premium car

- Younger generation (ie 20s - early 30s) need not support their parents as much as the 40s and 50s, thus, they spend on themselves more. In fact, one newspaper report mentioned that the 20s group has the biggest group of credit card default.

 

Our society, like many (eg USA), embraces "instant gratification" whereby enjoy life (or quality of life) means having 5Cs or 6Cs. Well, it's perfectly ok to enjoy some Cs but it doesn't have to be the center of our lives.

 

My 2 cts

 

i agree w u on the freaking rich part..but the key now is more are on higher incomes. it has almost become common for pple under 40 to earn 5 digit mthly salary now...plus the double income of spouse, singaporeans def can afford the 100k-150k cars.

[Laworder17]

Doing A Check on the Pricelist in Various Jap and Korea Car ADs,

 

Avante 1.6L Auto: $98,000

Altis 1.6L Auto: $98,500

Civic 1.6L Auto: $117,000

Certo Forte 1.6L Auto: Not Available

Mazda 3 1.6 AUto: $94,500

 

Really a big Wow!!!

[Kiasuking88]

Very sensible comments.

 

this thread (understandably) running very fast but would just like to comment on above.

 

Whilst there is some truth in it, i dun tink its the whole of the truth.

 

Lets look at the car dealers, with less COEs, they sell less cars every month. However, their overheads remain more or less the same. Hence with each quota revision doing downward, they need to increase the margin for each car they sell as these overheads are now being paid by a smaller amount of cars being sold. Not to mention with each sales exec now able to sell fewer cars, dealer might need to increase their commission (or increase their basic salary) in order for them to take a reasonable pay home. So selling price of the car will increase to cover the overheads and (maybe) commission on top of the increase in COE.

 

For us, existing car owners, yes we have better resale value but not in proportion to the rise in new car price. So the sell high buy high has limited application and probably more relevant if u sell ur car to buy another second hand car. my Koup was $66k when COE was $20K. before yesterday's results, COE was $34k but my car was selling at $85k (notice how the price had gone up by $19k when COE only go up by $14k as per my paragraph above?). If i sell my car now, i will probably break even (i.e. no need to top up) but a new replacement car will be crazy! today's ST reported altis was $97k and camry is $138k. How to sell high buy high?? Someone was even saying picanto will hit $80k. Would be better to just keep my Koup right? If i had extra money, i would buy a 1 yr old golf 1.4 sport TSI which is going for around $95k rather than a new altis.

 

I ve heard before dat ppl who buy car become stuck with it although they dun want it cos they unable to sell as they can't afford the top up of the balance loan. I would say this is the group that may benefit from this which is the group of ppl who want to exit car ownership - they can now sell of their car without much top up. who knows maybe can even get money back.

 

[Pocus]

I remembered recently that they reported that civil servants/government sectors (SAF, MOE, MOH, etc) will get pretty decent bonuses?

 

Once given out these millions of bonuses, i think they have already planned (months ago) to get some of these millions back from these recent COEs.

 

But making the COE high actually reduces the number of car buyers by alot! With the current price, with every 1 buyer now = 4 buyers when COE is lower, don't think the gahmen is earning alot more considering the sales rate of cars dropped so much..

[Karoon]

If COE is 100k..... Just imagine depreciation just for COE alone is 10k a year, not counting depreciation for OMV n car.

 

How many people can save 10k a year?

 

It is like throwing $10,000 EVERY year.... hehehehehehe

 

0 downpayment loan at today's coe is a paradox.

 

no money for dp but can pay $1,300/mth loan. for a basic jap car somemore.

 

 

 

 

[Maroon5]

Doing A Check on the Pricelist in Various Jap and Korea Car ADs,

 

Avante 1.6L Auto: $98,000

Altis 1.6L Auto: $98,500

Civic 1.6L Auto: $117,000

Certo Forte 1.6L Auto: Not Available

Mazda 3 1.6 AUto: $94,500

 

Really a big Wow!!!

 

Avante 98? makes mazda 3 looks real good

[Mustank]

2 solutions only? maybe so, in the eyes of lta people who does not have much say in city planning

 

there are other solutions such as decentralisation of the city centre to the surburbs which clearly has not been fully expolited. there is simply a too much housing in the west, north and east and too much office space in the south.

 

you cant really blame lta for it. lta got no say which plot of land to zone as office or housing

[Ben5266]

this i agree with you. though i must add there really isn't any solution to congestion other than reduction of number of cars. some time ago, some were saying the usage based system will work and more ERPs were constructed. it doesn't take a genius to know Orchard and town areas will still be jammed on weekends. who wouldn't pay just a few bucks to enter a hot zone. OPC? it makes the problem worse by making the roads full of cars after 7pm.

 

think left, think right, everything boils down to one problem, there are simply too many cars. so the only way to go is to make them more expensive. i don't blame the govt for increasing coe. i blame them for the congestion we're getting today. well, i guess better late than never.

 

however, if we still want to complain about car ownership being expensive, take a trip to Bangkok and see if you will mind the traffic there. at least for the Thais, they have more than just Bangkok to drive their cars.

Don't blame the govt la. At least they tried to fulfill our wish to own a car by "trying" the usage based system. Some how, things not going right and they must made the 360 U-turn of policy.

I can imagine, if they did not try to release more COE for the past 3 years, there will be another group of people kpkb why govt not using usage based system. We have too many Zhuge liang here.

 

Oh, must mention... HDB forgot to build more car park to cater to the increase of COE. When the satellite based ERP is in place 2-3 years from now, the govt might U-turn their policy again by increasing more COE. Then, those who got their COE at the high will kpkb.