COE solutions??

[inlinesix]

aiyah, we come and make some noise only, actually is no use one, at the end of day, we will each other and

At least i can still afford something i like for now w/o paying too much for it.

[Ghostrider]

no perfect solution. Whatever said, there will be a group that dun like cos they are affected.

Years of low coe and 100% loan has led to many people jumping in to own a car. Think to me, reasonable to have at least a certain 20-30% of downpayment.

 

Back in the 90s...the requirement to foot a 30% DP also seen 100K COEs.

 

To me...no perfect solution...the only way to reduce congestion is...

 

1) $20 ERP

2) $ 6/L petrol.

3) $100 Roadtax.

4) 1/4 tank rule travelling to Malaysia.

 

Basically 1 & 2 is to control usage. You can buy cars at whatever price...cheap or expensive...gov just whack you when you use the car so that one will think 3x before they drive off.

 

Point 3 since usage is expensive...can reduce roadtax.

 

Point 4 is to counter those who will flock to JB for petrol...you can leave with a empty tank for all gov care...but when you come back...not more than 1/4 tank of petrol. Else fine.

 

I am sure with these measures...roads will be less jam...and no jam to Malaysia as well.

 

But PAP will prob loose another few GRC next election...hahahahahaha....

[Myxilplix]

you know what dude, from your very first post i already could tell, your mentality is basically, be fair to those who dont have the means rather than those who have. Simple as that. And in forums I have come across countless such simplistic and wishful thinking. Thats why i always say, our youngsters are spoilt and they expect the country to be fair to them and give them what they dont have which the rich have.

 

Tell me I am wrong.

 

I don't pay much attention to youngsters so i really can't say. But yes, i believe in a world with more equality then there currently is, where perhaps the gaps between the Haves and Have-nots is not so large. If "meritocracy" is taken too far, where will we end up? Two sets of rules applying to the Have and Have-nots? People with money getting away with everything?

 

This path does not end in a good place. History is littered with revolutions and uprisings that started along the very same lines, some even in recent times.

 

 

 

 

[Vextan]

And history tells you that communism doesnt work. North Korea is the last one standing and owning a mobile phone is a crime punishable by death, while eating tree barks is not.

[Galantspeedz]

Point 4 is to counter those who will flock to JB for petrol...you can leave with a empty tank for all gov care...but when you come back...not more than 1/4 tank of petrol. Else fine.

 

this rule abit stupid leh..... so if you pump too much, you got to keep driving around the customs?

 

like that better have a roundabout before SG customs.... those excess petrol can keep going round and round till left 1/4

[Civicblade]

Yes, your proposal of moving towards usage charges may lead to COE being redundant.

 

When the time comes when COE has been scrapped and steep usage charges kicks in, there will be groups of forummers that will complain that it is unfair that he/she needs to pay for the high usage charges because of whatever reasons they can think of.

 

Example, a low income earner would say:"why should I pay the same usage fees as the "rich" who can afford to pay for $20 ERP and $6/l petrol"? "I have 4 kids, a wife, a maid and 4 elderly parents, I should get discount from ERP." "I am disabled", "I am grass roots", "I drive only weekends", I this and I that.

 

Usage charge based vehicle population control mechanism fundamentally works the same way as open bidding COE system, it is an open pricing mechanism. Unless Singaporeans wake up to the fact that our land and roads are very limited for our huge population and price control is the fairest and most equitable way of allocating this scare resources, the debate that a seemingly "better" solution exist will always be around.

 

Back in the 90s...the requirement to foot a 30% DP also seen 100K COEs.

 

To me...no perfect solution...the only way to reduce congestion is...

 

1) $20 ERP

2) $ 6/L petrol.

3) $100 Roadtax.

4) 1/4 tank rule travelling to Malaysia.

 

Basically 1 & 2 is to control usage. You can buy cars at whatever price...cheap or expensive...gov just whack you when you use the car so that one will think 3x before they drive off.

 

Point 3 since usage is expensive...can reduce roadtax.

 

Point 4 is to counter those who will flock to JB for petrol...you can leave with a empty tank for all gov care...but when you come back...not more than 1/4 tank of petrol. Else fine.

 

I am sure with these measures...roads will be less jam...and no jam to Malaysia as well.

 

But PAP will prob loose another few GRC next election...hahahahahaha....

 

[Galantspeedz]

I don't pay much attention to youngsters so i really can't say. But yes, i believe in a world with more equality then there currently is, where perhaps the gaps between the Haves and Have-nots is not so large. If "meritocracy" is taken too far, where will we end up? Two sets of rules applying to the Have and Have-nots? People with money getting away with everything?

 

This path does not end in a good place. History is littered with revolutions and uprisings that started along the very same lines, some even in recent times.

 

so if a person that pontang school, get lousy results or maybe even quit school and become a delivery driver earning $2k a month should have the same fair chance of a person that burn midnight oil, every day attend school, get good results then get a degree and now earn $10k a month

 

both should have the same chance of getting a car even though the person that earns $10k a month wants to buy 2 cars but because of balloting may even lose out to the van driver?

 

the example is in general terms... i know some people never study also can earn alot.

 

 

[Civicblade]

That is why we should not treat car ownership as if it is the holy grail of personal achievement or social standing.

 

People with lots of money can use their money to buy expensive COEs and contribute to nation building. We as people of the country must ensure that these money collected from the rich goes into infrastructure building and public transport improvement.

 

As long as we ensure that justice system serves all equally, whether you are rich or poor, and the education system allows all students an equal go at achieving their utmost potential and the job market and labour laws are equal for all we should be well away from a revolution. We are still some way of achieving real equality is the above aspects but spending too much effort on making everyone own a car just isn't important enough in the lives of the majority of Singaporeans.

 

You may have overstated the importance of car ownership in a person's priority in life and a nation's stability.

 

 

I don't pay much attention to youngsters so i really can't say. But yes, i believe in a world with more equality then there currently is, where perhaps the gaps between the Haves and Have-nots is not so large. If "meritocracy" is taken too far, where will we end up? Two sets of rules applying to the Have and Have-nots? People with money getting away with everything?

 

This path does not end in a good place. History is littered with revolutions and uprisings that started along the very same lines, some even in recent times.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Civicblade

[Vextan]

deleted.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Vextan

[Cerano]

if our government had taken a populist approach like what you suggested, we weren't be even remotely near where we are today in standing. thats why the basis of our success, or any other country, is meritocracy. communism doesnt work because everything is shared and there is no incentive to excel.

 

Meritocracy us good in principle but is virtually impossible to implement realistically.

What we have today is the matthew effect, of an aggregated advantage.

The rich just get richer and the poor get poorer.

Is this the kind of society we want? While we dont want a dependency culture, do we want a mindless work machine where those who cant keep up fall into a category of denizenship and are trampled?

As a teacher i think you can easily notice how many of the students in any good top school live in private housing and have luxury cars as compared to those in normal schools.

 

This is when the top 20% own 80%

[Joseph22]

so, rolex or seiko better for daily watch?

it is not about can do can liao ... it's die die must buy

 

yeah lor... if really need a car to transport on ermergency. can call cab. last i check its cheaper than getting a car.

[Cerano]

And history tells you that communism doesnt work. North Korea is the last one standing and owning a mobile phone is a crime punishable by death, while eating tree barks is not.

 

Neither extremes are good. We dont want a north korea or monaco or arab spring

[Tonyhawk]

as i said before, the greater problem, is that of the income inequality and the desirability of car ownership.

 

COE prices being out of reach, is (IMO) an indicator that the haves are moving further away from the have nots.

 

i find it terribly disappointing to see this incredible sense of entitlement in our society today. A car is not a divine/constitutional right. Its a material good, that provides conveniences, at a price.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Tonyhawk

[Joseph22]

I don't pay much attention to youngsters so i really can't say. But yes, i believe in a world with more equality then there currently is, where perhaps the gaps between the Haves and Have-nots is not so large. If "meritocracy" is taken too far, where will we end up? Two sets of rules applying to the Have and Have-nots? People with money getting away with everything?

 

This path does not end in a good place. History is littered with revolutions and uprisings that started along the very same lines, some even in recent times.

great you like me like communism..

but are you willing to feed that lazy bum sitting beside you who eat snake away at work while you are contributing to the nations simply because of equality??

[Mustank]

issit you doing work, then accidently copy and paste in mcf

Edited December 26, 2012 by Mustank

[Vextan]

It's true that meritocracy cannot be implemented perfectly, as the advantaged will still have many advantages over the have-nots. however , such a system should strive to give everyone some opportunity to excel, whether or not some people have advantages over others. This inequiality in the form of unlevel playing field is inevitable as is a by-product off the system itself, i.e. some have achieved more success than others. As long as success is determined mainly by factors such as one's own doing and effort, then it achieves the objective of rewarding and encouraging the deserving ones who had benefitted the mass.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Vextan

[Myxilplix]

But is this really communism? We are just talking about a fairer system of obtaining a COE at more reasonable prices. It is not as if anyone expects the state to issue one COE and car per household. People will still have to pay for the COE and buy a car from the open market, paying the associated taxes for the cars themselves.

 

We are currently at a point where a Cat A COE costs more than most Cat A b&b cars. If cars are just a luxury item and we should just let the rich throw money at everything to get their way, why do we even need different categories at all?

 

Let's take it to the extreme then. One category for private cars and since we're pandering to the rich, let's set the miminum limit for private car OMVs at 50k. Then people with money can indulge themselves without having to compete with the poors for road space, parking lots, COEs and all those pesky things. Since only expensive cars can be sold in Singapore, the poorer folk don't even have to consider car ownership and can all just keep quiet and take the bus/mrt.

 

Where do we find the balance?

[Ngck]

High COE is indirectly taxing the rich.... Or those who think they are rich....

 

i dun mind at all... no money then take BMW lor...