COE solutions??

[Galantspeedz]

why the need of COE ? singapore is the only country in the world to implement COE. after so many years, has the car population been control ?

 

Other country that did not have COE system, how they control the car population ?

 

the only reason for the COE is REVENUE !!!

 

if there is no COE, do you think there will be more or less cars now?

[Cerano]

First you have to define what is middle class??

 

as what i see. Middle class (those 2 person household income more than 8K) can afford a car leh.

 

SINGAPORE: Singapore households were better off last year, as the median monthly household income per member rose to S$1,990, from S$1,850 in 2010.

Source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/sin...1182869/1/.html

Note per member is around 2k. Household is irrelevant because that includes other people perhaps kids who work. They dont contribute largely.

Take a number of 5k-6k for two working parents. How can that be considered comfortable enough to afford a 100k car comfortably. Even the cheapest car a QQ costs around 90k.

 

 

[Cerano]

if there is no COE, do you think there will be more or less cars now?

 

Its not a question of if it works. Its a question of it it can be done better?

[Civicblade]

I have two hands and two feet up in the air for comprehensive and island-wide usage based pricing of road use and vehicle population control. I hope that this will happen in the near future. This is the only viable alternative to the current open bidding COE system.

 

Imho the balance is where everyone is able to buy a car but not necessarily use it all the time eg. Usage based taxes.

The difference between the rich and the ok would be the difference in car models. As long as we dont fall into a stage where cars are being subsidised by the govt for the citizens.

Of course as agreed car ownership is a luxury not a given but neither should the typical man on the road (middle class) be priced out of the market. Just like how a tv is a luxury item too but nearly everyone has one, maybe the rich can afford 75" or 100" with the latest while the lower groups struggle to own one or dont possess one at all

Having the automotive sector in such a state is inherently unhealthy.

 

[Joseph22]

SINGAPORE: Singapore households were better off last year, as the median monthly household income per member rose to S$1,990, from S$1,850 in 2010.

Source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/sin...1182869/1/.html

Note per member is around 2k. Household is irrelevant because that includes other people perhaps kids who work. They dont contribute largely.

Take a number of 5k-6k for two working parents. How can that be considered comfortable enough to afford a 100k car comfortably. Even the cheapest car a QQ costs around 90k.

median monthly household not consider middle class lah.

[Galantspeedz]

Its not a question of if it works. Its a question of it it can be done better?

 

i agree... but that's not what the other poster was saying mah

[Cerano]

median monthly household not consider middle class lah.

 

Middle class is the 50th percentile + - 20% imo. If even the median cant afford a car comfortable then well we have a problem.

[macrosszero]

I have two hands and two feet up in the air for comprehensive and island-wide usage based pricing of road use and vehicle population control. I hope that this will happen in the near future. This is the only viable alternative to the current open bidding COE system.

 

Please lah. You do that and those struggling salesmen or service engineers crisscrossing the island on a daily basis to service their clients will kena. Then they will whine that the system penalizes them for earning a living.

 

And what's the point of owning a car if you use it sparingly? It sits in your carpark depreciating away, just so you can call yourself a car owner, but you can't afford to drive it around. That's not a solution that's better than the current system. Its just an alternative.

[Sabian]

issit you doing work, then accidently copy and paste in mcf

Know also don't say lah.

[Ben5266]

First you have to define what is middle class??

 

as what i see. Middle class (those 2 person household income more than 8K) can afford a car leh.

... according to MCF standard.... household 8k is ... ahem... low class... at most higher band in low class.

[Joseph22]

Middle class is the 50th percentile + - 20% imo. If even the median cant afford a car comfortable then well we have a problem.

This is what you think mah. you go ask those ppl in that bracket if they feel that they are in middle class.

 

in fact USA say Middle class is USD 250K. i dont think their 50%tile is earning 250K.

 

Car is how many percentile of our population??

 

by right if its is 20% then by right only top 20% can afford.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Joseph22

[Joseph22]

... according to MCF standard.... household 8k is ... ahem... low class... at most higher band in low class.

below 8K Low class.. so i say more than 8K mah

[Civicblade]

I am not going to do that, the government of Singapore is and I am in favour of it. Is the Singapore population made up of majority salesmen and service engineers? National policy is for the majority, not just a segment of the population.

 

We can of course scrap COE and ARF right now without implementing usage based charges, but do you think you can still get to work in under 2hours? What is the point of owning a car when you can't even get from Tampines to Orchard in under 2 hrs?

 

We are living on an island of 680s square kilometres with a population of 5.6 million. This is a fact. There is no solution in Singapore that can give you cheap COE, cheap usage of cars, cheap everything. Not unless the population dwindle to 0.5million.

 

We cannot expect the ease of car ownership to be the same as sub-urban USA and Australia, we have to benchmark against Tokyo, New York, Shanghai and the likes of such cities.

 

The sooner we manage our expectations, the easier it is for us to channel our energies into more positives ventures instead of always thinking how the country can provide us with one car each and it is the evil policy makers that are denying us this "right". There is no such right in the first place. There are 5.6million of us in this small country.

 

Please lah. You do that and those struggling salesmen or service engineers crisscrossing the island on a daily basis to service their clients will kena. Then they will whine that the system penalizes them for earning a living.

 

And what's the point of owning a car if you use it sparingly? It sits in your carpark depreciating away, just so you can call yourself a car owner, but you can't afford to drive it around. That's not a solution that's better than the current system. Its just an alternative.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Civicblade

[Joseph22]

I am not going to do that, the government of Singapore is and I am in favour of it. Is the Singapore population made up of majority salesmen and service engineers? National policy is for the majority, not just a segment of the population.

 

We can of course scrap COE and ARF right now without implementing usage based charges, but do you think you can still get to work in under 2hours? What is the point of owning a car when you can't even get from Tampines to Orchard in under 2 hrs?

 

We are living on an island of 680s square kilometres with a population of 5.6 million. This is a fact. There is no solution in Singapore that can give you cheap COE, cheap usage of cars, cheap everything. Not unless the population dwindle to 0.5million.

 

We cannot expect the ease of car ownership to be the same as sub-urban USA and Australia, we have to benchmark against Tokyo, New York, Shanghai and the likes of such cities.

 

The sooner we manage our expectations, the easier it is for us to channel our energies into more positives ventures instead of always thinking how the country can provide us with one car each and it is the evil policy makers that are denying us this "right". There is no such right in the first place. There are 5.6million of us in this small country.

the point is to make all of us go public transport.

 

KPI met.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Joseph22

[Ben5266]

Middle class is the 50th percentile + - 20% imo. If even the median cant afford a car comfortable then well we have a problem.

I tot long long time ago, I already calculated the affordable car price for median population is $150k. We are not there yet.

 

[Ben5266]

This is what you think mah. you go ask those ppl in that bracket if they feel that they are in middle class.

 

in fact USA say Middle class is USD 250K. i dont think their 50%tile is earning 250K.

 

Car is how many percentile of our population??

 

by right if its is 20% then by right only top 20% can afford.

We have about 1mil cars and 5 mil people. So about 20%. But this is individual. If 3 persons make a household, then should be 50% of the household should have car. Household income at 50% is.... $8500.

If car affordability is 12 months of household income, it will be $100k. If 18 months, it will be $150k.

 

So, Singaporean simply can afford $100k COE.

 

[Kiadaw]

Looking at this thread, we can already see the issues with our society.

 

Instead of working harder to getting better or more luxurious things in life, or be more realistic in expectation, & live within ones means, we rather pay though our nose, for things that really could be live without at times, or demand that prices comes to a level that one can afford, or made condition that make you able to get it (e.g Anyone with 2 kids or more should get COE as present from Gov, Singles pay 2 times the amount, oh by the way, I have 2 kids, but its purely accident, I am not speaking for myself....yeah right...) or even a lottery.

 

If in your neighborhood, you are the only unlucky guy that doesn't hit the lottery on cars, see how tulan you will be.....I bet you will come to MCF and complain, "Go back to old system, the new system is unfair!"

 

Car is not a requirement in Singapore. There is a comprehensive public transport system (not perfect by any stretch of imagination, but adequate), & MANY people are using it everyday (in fact majority of people in Singapore), what make some of us so special that we cannot do the same?

I have used it for most of my years, & its not luxury by any imagination, but its not like a trip to hell-express like many people suggested here.

 

And please, don't give the I need to go ulu places, only few places in Singapore (unless you live in middle of Bukit Timah reserve) are 10 mins walk from a main road.

 

Yes, I will agree that there will be a special group of people that need a car on standby or point to point, but having a lottery system doesn't help them in any way right? since they are subjected to the same chance of the draw.

 

The one thing I see that can improve for COE is that the allocation can be more stabilize, no drastic drop or rise in the following one. Maybe special consideration for people that really need car, like elderly with walking problems or need car on standby for emergency, but otherwise, no special treatment for others.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Kiadaw

[macrosszero]

So, Singaporean simply can afford $100k COE.

 

Singaporeans can afford to take a loan on a 100k COE.