Grab/Ryde issues and charges

[Evillusion]

1 mil a month need deep pockets?

 

Uber's worldwide loss is actually more than 2,000 mil last year so whats 12 mil in SG? (I believe the loss is much more than 12 mil in SG anyway).

that was based on a quantum of 1000 per month (minimum) for each car and not including rd tax, parking charge and other misc. If want to calculate their loss i dont think we can get the data.

Wah they lose 2 billion ah......that ship will sink in no time!

[Kusje]

Remains to be seen la.

 

The ship was last valued at 60+ bil USD leh.

[Evillusion]

Remains to be seen la.

 

The ship was last valued at 60+ bil USD leh.

ya...i just wikied uber....their profit was 1.5 billion in 2015. Knn....they have 60 billion to play with......just hope the gov list their cars as taxi.....disturb our coe bidding oni!

[Kusje]

ya...i just wikied uber....their profit was 1.5 billion in 2015. Knn....they have 60 billion to play with......just hope the gov list their cars as taxi.....disturb our coe bidding oni!

 

Profit?

 

You mean loss ah? Don't think uber ever made any money since they started.

 

Govt won't reclassify them la. They already came out with the new rules for private hire cars so don't think there will be much change in the system. Besides, uber/grab will be one of the tools to implement their car-lite vision when self driving cars come out.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Kusje

[Evillusion]

Profit?

 

You mean loss ah? Don't think uber ever made any money since they started.

 

Govt won't reclassify them la. They already came out with the new rules for private hire cars so don't think there will be much change in the system.

wiki say profit lei....not me!

[Piyopico]

All I know is I pay $16 to get home from the airport after mid nite while a taxi will cost me at least $25. I stay less than 15k away from the airport so if you stay in Jurong etc....... the difference at least $20.

 

The taxi plying the nite shift quite jialat.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Piyopico

[Kusje]

wiki say profit lei....not me!

 

Uh. 1.5 bil is the revenue in 2015 leh.

 

Revenue is the amount they receive (from rental, and their 20% commission). Still need to subtract all their cost (depreciation, office rental, employee salary, driver incentive) before you get the profit.

All I know is I pay $16 to get home from the airport after mid nite while a taxi will cost me at least $25. I stay less than 15k away from the airport so if you stay in Jurong etc....... the difference at least $20.

 

The taxi plying the nite shift quite jialat.

 

So far the ones earning are the taxi companies. So after the taxi drivers cannot tahan anymore, the burden will go to these taxi companies. Some of them already started to reduce rental by quite a substantial amount right?

[Evillusion]

Uh. 1.5 bil is the revenue in 2015 leh.

 

Revenue is the amount they receive (from rental, and their 20% commission). Still need to subtract all their cost (depreciation, office rental, employee salary, driver incentive) before you get the profit.

 

 

So far the ones earning are the taxi companies. So after the taxi drivers cannot tahan anymore, the burden will go to these taxi companies. Some of them already started to reduce rental by quite a substantial amount right?

oh...i see. Lets hope they get their fingers burnt in SG.

Ya ....i know sg taxi companies are making a lot from rental but not sure how much they charge the drivers....$80-100 a day? My bro who drives a vito 9 seater picks uber passengers too but i never delves into his income as without uber he was rather doing well with his regular customers. Good for the taxi drivers if our taxi companies reduce their rental due to uber.

[Kusje]

 

Singapore's second-largest taxi operator, Trans-Cab, is slashing rental fees in a bid to get more cabbies to drive with the company and reduce costs for existing hirers.

The move comes amid stiff competition from private-hire services Uber and Grab, which has led taxi drivers to give up the business or jump ship to rent cars and drive for the new players, observers said.

From Jan 1, Trans-Cab said it will cut the daily rental fee for its Toyota Wish taxis from $90 now. The new fee will start from $59.50, a 34 per cent reduction. The rate for a Renault Latitude over three years old will be cut from $114 to $88.50, a 22 per cent reduction.

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/trans-cab-cuts-rental-fees-in-bid-to-attract-cabbies

 

[Toothiewabbit]

Slashing the rental fees is one thing.

 

The taxi companies should do away with all the complex, irritating surcharges.

 

.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Toothiewabbit

[13177]

All I know is I pay $16 to get home from the airport after mid nite while a taxi will cost me at least $25. I stay less than 15k away from the airport so if you stay in Jurong etc....... the difference at least $20.

 

The taxi plying the nite shift quite jialat.

 I wonder how uber earns by offering such a great difference in fare between them and taxi?

[Vinceng]

Oh shit!l think want to buy better buy now.

I predict coe will be lesser and lesser each year.

 

With lesser COE quota, means COE prices will sky rocket.

 

Buy now, few years down the road when COE hits peak of $100K, can breakeven and sell away car without loss.

[Vratenza]

key word here is MARKET SHARE

 

If GRAB do not exist here to fight for market share, I doubt UBER will be as aggressive since the traditional Taxi service is basically sitting ducks for their picking

 

 

Uber is trying to grow as rapidly as possible. Keeping costs down isn't really their aim right now. They just want to flood the market and squeeze their own drivers.

 

[Blueray]

Slashing the rental fees is one thing.

 

The taxi companies should do away with all the complex, irritating surcharges.

 

.

Speech by Mrs Josephine Teo, Senior Minister of State for Transport, on Creating A Car-Lite Society, at the Committee Of Supply Debate 2015 on 11 March 2015

 

.....

 

34.     Besides taxi availability, the other issue that concerns commuters is the complexity of the taxi fare structure. The taxi fare structure today has four broad components – the flag-down fare, unit fares (how much more one pays for additional distance travelled and time taken), the third broad category is surcharges and the fourth is booking fees.

 

 

35.     Today, most of the variability in fares occurs in the flag-down component, which ranges from $3.20 to $5. However, looking at just standard taxis which comprise 95% of the taxi population, the range is much narrower, from $3.20 to $3.90. Moreover, about six in 10 standard taxis have the lowest flag-down fare of $3.20. 

 

36.     As Mr Seng and Dr Lily Neo noted, there are two sides to this issue: commuter interests and taxi drivers’ income. These came up clearly in the focus group discussions LTA held with commuters, drivers and taxi companies.

 

37.     The commuters did not want, in any fare harmonisation exercise, for fares to be levelled up. Drivers, on the other hand, wanted them levelled up, and taxi companies too have informed us that if we were to mandate fare harmonisation, flag-down fares across their own fleet would be harmonised upwards.

 

38.     It is not possible to resolve such competing dynamics to the satisfaction of all. Therefore, we may have to take a balanced approach, which focuses instead on preventing the fare situation from getting even more complicated for commuters in future.

 

39.     Given the conflicting interests over flag-down fares, we may leave them be, for now. Taxi companies may harmonise them naturally over time within their own fleet, for example, when their costs of buying and hiring out taxis stabilise, or in response to changing market conditions. But that is their decision to take, given that taxi fares in Singapore have been deregulated since 1998.

 

40.     The other components of taxi fares, namely surcharges, unit fares and booking fees, do not vary much as it is. We will see whether the Government should step in to mandate standardisation of their structure. For instance, we can look into whether each taxi company should be allowed to have only one set of unit fares for its own standard taxis, which Mr Seng suggested, rather than allow them to vary over time like the flag-down fares.

 

41.     A standardised structure will enable commuters to compare rates across taxi companies more easily. It will also prevent a situation in the future where there is a variation of other components of taxi fares even within the same taxi company, like what has happened for flag-down fares today. LTA plans to announce the details in due course.

 

42.     Taking a step back on this issue, the fare landscape is part and parcel of a competitive industry landscape. We liberalised the taxi industry in 2003, which resulted in new players on the scene and fleet expansion. With six taxi companies around today, there is considerable competition for drivers. Coupled with a tight labour market offering alternative employment to drivers, that keeps the companies on their toes.

 

43.     The rental rates, fare structures and other terms of lease may differ, but it is in each company’s interest to ensure they are attractive to drivers overall, and continue to draw sufficient passengers. While the fare structures may not be as simple as some may like, taxi fares are generally competitive – they are comparable to Hong Kong and lower than other leading cities. This should be what matters most.

 

.....

 

 

https://www.mot.gov.sg/News-Centre/News/2015/Speech-by-Mrs-Josephine-Teo,-Senior-Minister-of-State-for-Transport,-on-Creating-A-Car-Lite-Society,-at-the-Committee-Of-Supply-Debate-2015-on-11-March-2015/

 

say 2 years ago, now still nothing done ... 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Blueray

[Toothiewabbit]

Speech by Mrs Josephine Teo, Senior Minister of State for Transport, on Creating A Car-Lite Society, at the Committee Of Supply Debate 2015 on 11 March 2015

 

.....

 

34.     Besides taxi availability, the other issue that concerns commuters is the complexity of the taxi fare structure. The taxi fare structure today has four broad components – the flag-down fare, unit fares (how much more one pays for additional distance travelled and time taken), the third broad category is surcharges and the fourth is booking fees.

 

 

35.     Today, most of the variability in fares occurs in the flag-down component, which ranges from $3.20 to $5. However, looking at just standard taxis which comprise 95% of the taxi population, the range is much narrower, from $3.20 to $3.90. Moreover, about six in 10 standard taxis have the lowest flag-down fare of $3.20. 

 

36.     As Mr Seng and Dr Lily Neo noted, there are two sides to this issue: commuter interests and taxi drivers’ income. These came up clearly in the focus group discussions LTA held with commuters, drivers and taxi companies.

 

37.     The commuters did not want, in any fare harmonisation exercise, for fares to be levelled up. Drivers, on the other hand, wanted them levelled up, and taxi companies too have informed us that if we were to mandate fare harmonisation, flag-down fares across their own fleet would be harmonised upwards.

 

38.     It is not possible to resolve such competing dynamics to the satisfaction of all. Therefore, we may have to take a balanced approach, which focuses instead on preventing the fare situation from getting even more complicated for commuters in future.

 

39.     Given the conflicting interests over flag-down fares, we may leave them be, for now. Taxi companies may harmonise them naturally over time within their own fleet, for example, when their costs of buying and hiring out taxis stabilise, or in response to changing market conditions. But that is their decision to take, given that taxi fares in Singapore have been deregulated since 1998.

 

40.     The other components of taxi fares, namely surcharges, unit fares and booking fees, do not vary much as it is. We will see whether the Government should step in to mandate standardisation of their structure. For instance, we can look into whether each taxi company should be allowed to have only one set of unit fares for its own standard taxis, which Mr Seng suggested, rather than allow them to vary over time like the flag-down fares.

 

41.     A standardised structure will enable commuters to compare rates across taxi companies more easily. It will also prevent a situation in the future where there is a variation of other components of taxi fares even within the same taxi company, like what has happened for flag-down fares today. LTA plans to announce the details in due course.

 

42.     Taking a step back on this issue, the fare landscape is part and parcel of a competitive industry landscape. We liberalised the taxi industry in 2003, which resulted in new players on the scene and fleet expansion. With six taxi companies around today, there is considerable competition for drivers. Coupled with a tight labour market offering alternative employment to drivers, that keeps the companies on their toes.

 

43.     The rental rates, fare structures and other terms of lease may differ, but it is in each company’s interest to ensure they are attractive to drivers overall, and continue to draw sufficient passengers. While the fare structures may not be as simple as some may like, taxi fares are generally competitive – they are comparable to Hong Kong and lower than other leading cities. This should be what matters most.

 

.....

 

 

https://www.mot.gov.sg/News-Centre/News/2015/Speech-by-Mrs-Josephine-Teo,-Senior-Minister-of-State-for-Transport,-on-Creating-A-Car-Lite-Society,-at-the-Committee-Of-Supply-Debate-2015-on-11-March-2015/

 

say 2 years ago, now still nothing done ... 

 

 

Probably the discussion phase and harmonisation exercise not over yet lor

[Vratenza]

Actually what is there to harmonize? Taxi Drivers' wants and Commuters' wants will never be harmonised one....

 

Isn't it always been the case of Ah Gong say what you do what?

 

The wayang kulit too long drawn liao bah.....

 

 

Speech by Mrs Josephine Teo, Senior Minister of State for Transport, on Creating A Car-Lite Society, at the Committee Of Supply Debate 2015 on 11 March 2015

 

.....

 

34.     Besides taxi availability, the other issue that concerns commuters is the complexity of the taxi fare structure. The taxi fare structure today has four broad components – the flag-down fare, unit fares (how much more one pays for additional distance travelled and time taken), the third broad category is surcharges and the fourth is booking fees.

 

 

35.     Today, most of the variability in fares occurs in the flag-down component, which ranges from $3.20 to $5. However, looking at just standard taxis which comprise 95% of the taxi population, the range is much narrower, from $3.20 to $3.90. Moreover, about six in 10 standard taxis have the lowest flag-down fare of $3.20. 

 

36.     As Mr Seng and Dr Lily Neo noted, there are two sides to this issue: commuter interests and taxi drivers’ income. These came up clearly in the focus group discussions LTA held with commuters, drivers and taxi companies.

 

37.     The commuters did not want, in any fare harmonisation exercise, for fares to be levelled up. Drivers, on the other hand, wanted them levelled up, and taxi companies too have informed us that if we were to mandate fare harmonisation, flag-down fares across their own fleet would be harmonised upwards.

 

38.     It is not possible to resolve such competing dynamics to the satisfaction of all. Therefore, we may have to take a balanced approach, which focuses instead on preventing the fare situation from getting even more complicated for commuters in future.

 

39.     Given the conflicting interests over flag-down fares, we may leave them be, for now. Taxi companies may harmonise them naturally over time within their own fleet, for example, when their costs of buying and hiring out taxis stabilise, or in response to changing market conditions. But that is their decision to take, given that taxi fares in Singapore have been deregulated since 1998.

 

40.     The other components of taxi fares, namely surcharges, unit fares and booking fees, do not vary much as it is. We will see whether the Government should step in to mandate standardisation of their structure. For instance, we can look into whether each taxi company should be allowed to have only one set of unit fares for its own standard taxis, which Mr Seng suggested, rather than allow them to vary over time like the flag-down fares.

 

41.     A standardised structure will enable commuters to compare rates across taxi companies more easily. It will also prevent a situation in the future where there is a variation of other components of taxi fares even within the same taxi company, like what has happened for flag-down fares today. LTA plans to announce the details in due course.

 

42.     Taking a step back on this issue, the fare landscape is part and parcel of a competitive industry landscape. We liberalised the taxi industry in 2003, which resulted in new players on the scene and fleet expansion. With six taxi companies around today, there is considerable competition for drivers. Coupled with a tight labour market offering alternative employment to drivers, that keeps the companies on their toes.

 

43.     The rental rates, fare structures and other terms of lease may differ, but it is in each company’s interest to ensure they are attractive to drivers overall, and continue to draw sufficient passengers. While the fare structures may not be as simple as some may like, taxi fares are generally competitive – they are comparable to Hong Kong and lower than other leading cities. This should be what matters most.

 

.....

 

 

https://www.mot.gov.sg/News-Centre/News/2015/Speech-by-Mrs-Josephine-Teo,-Senior-Minister-of-State-for-Transport,-on-Creating-A-Car-Lite-Society,-at-the-Committee-Of-Supply-Debate-2015-on-11-March-2015/

 

say 2 years ago, now still nothing done ... 

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Vratenza

[Fcw75]

Talk is cheap free. 

Talk is cheap free. 

[Benarsenal]

and the drivers go blow trumpet here and there. For a company thats basically losing 1 million plus a month they must have a very deep pockets. I dont think they can replicate their success in other parts of the whole world as SG is really a unique market in the automotive world with taxes over taxes and especially the coe with a 10 yr shelf life.

 

They have mixed success in some markets, but are increasingly finding acceptance in many places despite some regulatory restrictions.

 

Basically their business model is:

 

Grow rapidly, both users and drivers.

Use that to convince investors to invest and raise funds ("see how big our market share, how big our reach")

Use that money to grow some more

Repeat

 

Their gamble now is to hope that the bubble doesn't burst before they reach their intended aim, which is to have a fleet of autonomous cars to provide their services. Once they got that, they can dispense with the drivers (one big expense gone + more profits), and then focus simply on developing cheap autonomous transport solutions and improving service.

 

They're never going to earn anything from rental. Think about it la. One Toyota Prius cost about $130,000 from Borneo. Daily rental for Prius is about $72. That means the car needs to be rented out daily for five years just to cover cost back. Who will rent from LCR for five years non-stop (unless they really like the car and like driving Uber)?

Edited January 17, 2017 by Benarsenal