COE solutions??

[Joseph22]

Scrap COE. Have a quota on how many cars each dealer can import based on past sales. If all cars can be sold, quota can increased based on 1% growth. If not all sold, quota cut.

then Car dealer knowing they only have limited number just start a bidding session for the car.

 

now the car price still stay high but no paper value cause no COE liao.

[Darryn]

Personal opinion is that something will be done about the "famine / feast" cycle when the next "bumper crop" comes about.

 

Not sure whether it will be a "clawback" or whether it will be a floor price or something similar, but I do believe that the government won't allow the situation to develop further.

 

Of course it does depend on how far the price drops. If it stays above $60k by itself, then (IMHO) not much needs to be done. If it drops to the $30k range, then I think something will be required.

 

As to "no loan for COE" I think this is a bad idea. Ultimately it will benefit the "rich", while at the same time making the total collection from COE less. Why do you want to make it easier for the already wealthy to own cars?

 

Why will this happen? By doing things like full bidding or no loan for COE, only those with big big resources will participate - those that least need a lower price COE. They are the ones that have the money, or can also can do the deposit etc and bid.

 

Price down, but more concentration of COE into the "elite" hands.

 

 

[Ben5266]

Of course I also want to rebate my COE if possible but don't you see that it is distorting the supply of COE and concentrating them into 1-2 year periods?

 

By making it non-rebatable, the COE supply should stabilize. Another solution is that the Government MUST not roll back the COEs immediately into the system. Come 2015 when there is a bumper supply of COE, the supply must be gradually put in over a period of at least 5 years to prevent huge fluctuations.

 

Either solution will not be popular with the masses.

non-rebatable... cannot lah. If car total loss how? If got a lemon, how?

LTA will be too busy to do case by case approval of rebate.

 

Then, those who paid $90k COE now will sure go to the street, even thought they are mostly from the rich and famous.

 

I think govt. has learned. Come 2014/15, they will surely change the policy and set a ceiling on the supply of COE.

By then, people will kpkb govt is trying to keep the COE price high.....

 

oh... we might have a new govt by 2015... maybe they have a creative solution to this....

[Roh96]

The ppl here are shouting for $100K in every round of bidding, the elites in this forum are asking for higher COE and ERP, I am hearing ppl saying they feel lucky for paying 60K on COE. So tell me, why need to fix this system?

[Myxilplix]

Some people still have the thinking that high COE = less cars on the road. It's the quota that determines that, not the price of the COE.

 

I still hold on to my suggestion of making the COE system a balloting exercise, with (reasonable) fixed prices for the categories and the necessary regulations in place to prevent profiteering (non-transferable, no dealer bidding etc). That way the fortnightly quotas can still be maintained without silly money getting involved.

 

Of course they won't because it's pretty obvious the current people in power are just hanging on to all their cash cows for dear life for as long as they can, damn their political futures or the future of the country.

 

From a political point of view, i think it would be a good move as well because it will appease the general public in terms of prices and also in terms of fairness towards all income levels (unlike the current system which has the general population unhappy about rich people/foreigners). Of course the rich people might grumble because now they cannot just throw money to get a COE but i'm talking from a political point of view in terms of winning over the general public.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Myxilplix

[Darryn]

Some people still have the thinking that high COE = less cars on the road. It's the quota that determines that, not the price of the COE.

 

I still hold on to my suggestion of making the COE system a balloting exercise, with (reasonable) fixed prices for the categories and the necessary regulations in place to prevent profiteering (non-transferable, no dealer bidding etc). That way the fortnightly quotas can still be maintained without silly money getting involved.

 

Of course they won't because it's pretty obvious the current people in power are just hanging on to all their cash cows for dear life for as long as they can, damn their political futures or the future of the country.

 

From a political point of view, i think it would be a good move as well because it will appease the general public in terms of prices and also in terms of fairness towards all income levels (unlike the current system which has the general population unhappy about rich people/foreigners). Of course the rich people might grumble because now they cannot just throw money to get a COE but i'm talking from a political point of view in terms of winning over the general public.

 

It would be really hard to stop the "profiteering" though - so long as demand outstrips supply, there will be a black market with money to be made.

 

Then for those that really "need" a car - what are you going to do? What happens if they are "unlucky" and lose out at the ballot?

 

There is little doubt that some need a car more than others, and some that will bid just for the sake of it and heck care.

 

Will it be a system of "less chance once have a car in the family"?

 

This will be difficult to administer and be a logistics nightmare I think - although the thought of it is attractive.

[Toapayohkid]

Some people still have the thinking that high COE = less cars on the road. It's the quota that determines that, not the price of the COE.

 

exactly true, absolutely agree! :)

 

coe determines the price of the cars that roll out on the road, not the number of cars that roll out on the road.

 

once we get that difference clear, it means coe can be much lower and still car population is controlled. by extension, it means coe pricing policy is flawed.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Toapayohkid

[Tonyhawk]

COE is a great solution to a car congestion problem.

 

the problem that is the price of the COE, is caused by its desirability and affordability.

 

to address the second problem, i suggest we improve public transport dramatically and lower the income gap. those are the root causes of our dissatisfaction.

[Tonyhawk]

-double post-

Edited December 26, 2012 by Tonyhawk

[Toapayohkid]

COE is a great solution to a car congestion problem.

 

the problem that is the price of the COE, is caused by its desirability and affordability.

 

to address the second problem, i suggest we improve public transport dramatically and lower the income gap. those are the root causes of our dissatisfaction.

 

sorry, road usage pricing like erp controls car congestion, not coe.

 

weekend car got coe also don't lead to congestion as too expensive to drive cars on road on certain days and certain time. there is a another difference between people owning cars and people driving it.

[Wt_know]

without coe, car park crunch comes in. i assume you suggest buy car (no coe), park it and use it when necessary similar to red plate but instead of $17k rebate scrap coe entirely.

then car owner need to buy carpark lot liao. $100k per lot ... huat ah !

seriously, even now car with coe ... hdb, condo, offices and shopping malls already experiencing car park crunch.

 

sorry, road usage pricing like erp controls car congestion, not coe.

 

weekend car got coe also don't lead to congestion as too expensive to drive cars on road on certain days and certain time. there is a another difference between people owning cars and people driving it.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Wt_know

[Toapayohkid]

without coe, car park crunch comes in. i assume you suggest buy car (no coe), park it and use it when necessary similar to red plate but instead of $17k rebate scrap coe entirely.

then car owner need to buy carpark lot liao. $100k per lot ... huat ah !

seriously, even now car with coe ... hdb, condo, offices and shopping malls already experiencing car park crunch.

 

 

yes, car park crunch is true. in most modern international cities, car parks are real estate. singapore's size more accurate to compare to a city than to a country.

 

that said, hdb can build more car park lots if they want to, and charge higher car park rates. how many and how much more... if i transport minister that what i do. make it a hdb problem, not a transport and lta problem :)

 

imho, the better policy intent is that people can own cars, and drive them when they think they need it. now coe so high car so ex, i buy car liao i die die must drive it around since so ex!

Edited December 26, 2012 by Toapayohkid

[Tonyhawk]

sorry, road usage pricing like erp controls car congestion, not coe.

 

weekend car got coe also don't lead to congestion as too expensive to drive cars on road on certain days and certain time. there is a another difference between people owning cars and people driving it.

 

i agree that ERP controls are better, but until we have in place a comprehensive system, i have my reservations that it would work.

 

also, ERP can cause our mis-informed fellow citizens to have misconceived perceptions about ownership costs. as it is, some of us are jumping into car ownership without understanding the costs involved.

 

im not saying COE is perfect, but i believe it is the best solution for the moment. until we have a perfect road pricing solution, plus increased awareness of ownership, its straightforward and reduces administrative costs for us tax payers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Civicblade]

The current system of allocating COE through open bidding works very well for Singapore, an exceptional small country with a huge population. Throughout the years, the government had made the system more open, more transparent and more market driven.

 

The current COE system has only one drawback, prices are determined by demand alone, since supply is fixed to the vehicle growth rate determined by LTA. I would go for a system with only one drawback instead many other systems proposed in this forum because all other "solutions" create more issues.

 

Does the high COE prices really affect someone's ability to own a car? No, if you are new to the workforce, eyeing on your first car, you should check out the used car market. There are used cars that depreciate for $5k until scrap, these are cars that are prudent on the pocket.

 

Even in the USA, where new cars are cheap (cheapest in the world due to large market and competition), many buy used. It makes economical sense to do so, why should it be different in Singapore? Why are we so obsessed with COE prices which affects mostly new cars? Many of you would argue that the used car market has been lifted by high COE prices, but look around, there are indeed used cars that are not heavily pegged to the COE situation (2003-2007 used cars).

 

Look at high COE prices from another angle, yes the rich now dominate the new car market. That is good, because the rich are paying high taxes for their cars. I am from the middle income group, I wear a hat that fits my head. I buy used cars, and I thank the rich for contributing to nation building through the high COE prices for the past two years. The bumper crop of deregistration will happen in 2006-2009, just sit tight and enjoy the extra-ordinary tax contribution effort by the well off in our society. Get into the market when prices comes down when deregistration goes up (inevitable).

 

Paying to use conjestion-free roads (by owning a car) is a privilege in Singapore due to our high population density and it will remain so as long as Singapore continues to grow. This phemonenon is a problem of success. There are many more Singaporean in the middle income segment right now than ever before in our history, everyone aspires to own a car, most make a decent income. As demand increase for a limited supply goods, prices goes up, simple economics. Why are motorist expecting otherwise. No matter how good (or bad) you guys think our government is, they are not almighty and surely they cannot change this basic law of economics.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Civicblade

[Toapayohkid]

i agree that ERP controls are better, but until we have in place a comprehensive system, i have my reservations that it would work.

 

also, ERP can cause our mis-informed fellow citizens to have misconceived perceptions about ownership costs. as it is, some of us are jumping into car ownership without understanding the costs involved.

 

im not saying COE is perfect, but i believe it is the best solution for the moment. until we have a perfect road pricing solution, plus increased awareness of ownership, its straightforward and reduces administrative costs for us tax payers.

 

agree, the solution should be more comprehensive. it appears comprehensive now, but is actually ad hoc stop gaps and the end result is people getting screwed either they drive or take public transport.

[Mustank]

The current system of allocating COE through open bidding works very well for Singapore, an exceptional small country with a huge population. Throughout the years, the government had made the system more open, more transparent and more market driven.

 

The current COE system has only one drawback, prices are determined by demand alone, since supply is fixed to the vehicle growth rate determined by LTA. I would go for a system with only one drawback instead many other systems proposed in this forum because all other "solutions" create more issues.

 

Does the high COE prices really affect someone's ability to own a car? No, if you are new to the workforce, eyeing on your first car, you should check out the used car market. There are used cars that depreciate for $5k until scrap, these are cars that are prudent on the pocket.

 

Even in the USA, where new cars are cheap (cheapest in the world due to large market and competition), many buy used. It makes economical sense to do so, why should it be different in Singapore? Why are we so obsessed with COE prices which affects mostly new cars? Many of you would argue that the used car market has been lifted by high COE prices, but look around, there are indeed used cars that are not heavily pegged to the COE situation (2003-2007 used cars).

 

Look at high COE prices from another angle, yes the rich now dominate the new car market. That is good, because the rich are paying high taxes for their cars. I am from the middle income group, I wear a hat that fits my head. I buy used cars, and I thank the rich for contributing to nation building through the high COE prices for the past two years. The bumper crop of deregistration will happen in 2006-2009, just sit tight and enjoy the extra-ordinary tax contribution effort by the well off in our society. Get into the market when prices comes down when deregistration goes up (inevitable).

 

Paying to use conjestion-free roads (by owning a car) is a privilege in Singapore due to our high population density and it will remain so as long as Singapore continues to grow. This phemonenon is a problem of success. There are many more Singaporean in the middle income segment right now than ever before in our history, everyone aspires to own a car, most make a decent income. As demand increase for a limited supply goods, prices goes up, simple economics. Why are motorist expecting otherwise. No matter how good (or bad) you guys think our government is, they are not almighty and surely they cannot change this basic law of economics.

 

yes they can, once the city centre is decentralised and there are ample employment opportinuty in every heartland, there will be less demand for transport (whether public or pte)

[Wt_know]

i see whether you will say the same thing in 2013-2015 where 2003-2007 cars are gone and left with high coe car in used market

 

Does the high COE prices really affect someone's ability to own a car? No, if you are new to the workforce, eyeing on your first car, you should check out the used car market. There are used cars that depreciate for $5k until scrap, these are cars that are prudent on the pocket.

 

Even in the USA, where new cars are cheap (cheapest in the world due to large market and competition), many buy used. It makes economical sense to do so, why should it be different in Singapore? Why are we so obsessed with COE prices which affects mostly new cars? Many of you would argue that the used car market has been lifted by high COE prices, but look around, there are indeed used cars that are not heavily pegged to the COE situation (2003-2007 used cars).

Edited December 26, 2012 by Wt_know

[Enye]

In Singapore, cars are for the rich

 

COE system is currently milking the rich

 

if you are not rich enough

 

please don't play in this playground