Middle class blues

[Viceroymenthol]

The garbage man is highly trained in what we would last time call the Vocational Institute. He knows how to operate complex machinery and is highly efficient at his job thanks to the specialised training.

 

Highly trained? Vocational Institute? Operate complex machinery? Highly efficient?

 

WASTE MY FARKING TIME

 

Just hire a few hundred Banglas at $400/month each and solve the farking problem!

 

There will always be near-slave labour in Asia for us to hire in large numbers.

 

Human resource is our most important resource. And thank god we live in a neighburhood where dirt cheap labour is available and plentiful and it looks like that way for the next few hundred years at least (if you have ever visited the poorer countries in our region).

[Acemundo]

i think now couples with combined monthly income of anything less than 10K is consider low income.

middle class is 10K-20K monthly

upper class is 20K and above monthly

ELITE class is anything more than 50K monthly

 

 

what about those low on income but high on assets?

[Acemundo]

you elite is it? really disconnect from ground. This is the real statistics number

 

 

haha this one looks surreal to me......at least I don't think my household is so high up

[Bobby_tan]

Whoo all the PAP internet brigade chut liaoz. Regarding the unemployment rate, it does not segregate FTs/PRs/citizens. So while there is a 1.9% rate across the board, when you break it down into the FT/PR/citizen demographics, you will confirm see that local unemployment rate is the highest out of all the groups. And regarding the low salary, FTs ARE suppressing the wages. Why leh? Very simple. Many bosses have the mindset of 'why should I pay you more? I can get an FT for cheaper to do the same work you do.' So you want to ask for raise, the boss tell you go home and sleep. Because to them, it doesn't really matter how well and fast you do the job, you just get the job done by deadline can already. This one who dunno how to do?

 

As for getting replaced by FT, yes, sometimes the boss feels we are not up to standard, but most occasion it's done in the name of 'cost cutting measures'. Because to the company (especially MNCs), no matter how good you are, you are just small fry. So what if you're good? I got a few more good ones already working in the company. I retrench you and bring in a foreigner who has half the salary you do. No issue to me, it won't affect me. Even if the foreigner is a complete and utter incompetent, I still got other good workers to cover what. At most I throw his work to them lah. Of course, this 'wage savings' will result in fatter pockets for the high level management, so the upper management is going to order the chop. Then you see the different levels of management taichi the chop all the way down to the rank and file.

 

All this has nothing to do with inadequacy or whether or not your good at your job, it's simple profit margin.

[Bobby_tan]

Highly trained? Vocational Institute? Operate complex machinery? Highly efficient?

 

WASTE MY FARKING TIME

 

Just hire a few hundred Banglas at $400/month each and solve the farking problem!

 

There will always be near-slave labour in Asia for us to hire in large numbers.

 

Human resource is our most important resource. And thank god we live in a neighburhood where dirt cheap labour is available and plentiful and it looks like that way for the next few hundred years at least (if you have ever visited the poorer countries in our region).

 

And your mentality is why you'll never improve standards. Instead of solving the problem, you're just going around it. What happens when these few hundred banglas decide to get a brain and demand higher wages? Then what are you going to do? Fire them and hire new ones?

Edited July 4, 2013 by Bobby_tan

[Tonyhawk]

Study so much to throw garbage for what?

 

What a waste of the State's resources!

 

That place in school could have gone to someone else who can grow up to contribute in more important ways to the economy/society!

 

You are simply proposing to ape the liberal developed West's socioeconomic model without thinking why they ended up in that situation in the first place. They are a complete farking mess and they know it! And you fools are simply dying to copy their style.

 

I agree with most of the above.

 

unfortunately, the standout for me is the highlighted one. It reeks of elitism. IMO, everybody contributes in their own way. important or not, is not decided by the magic number defined as GDP. but im sure you'd disagree, because its the system that made you wealthy.

[Ingenius]

Whoo all the PAP internet brigade chut liaoz. Regarding the unemployment rate, it does not segregate FTs/PRs/citizens. So while there is a 1.9% rate across the board, when you break it down into the FT/PR/citizen demographics, you will confirm see that local unemployment rate is the highest out of all the groups. And regarding the low salary, FTs ARE suppressing the wages. Why leh? Very simple. Many bosses have the mindset of 'why should I pay you more? I can get an FT for cheaper to do the same work you do.' So you want to ask for raise, the boss tell you go home and sleep. Because to them, it doesn't really matter how well and fast you do the job, you just get the job done by deadline can already. This one who dunno how to do?

 

As for getting replaced by FT, yes, sometimes the boss feels we are not up to standard, but most occasion it's done in the name of 'cost cutting measures'. Because to the company (especially MNCs), no matter how good you are, you are just small fry. So what if you're good? I got a few more good ones already working in the company. I retrench you and bring in a foreigner who has half the salary you do. No issue to me, it won't affect me. Even if the foreigner is a complete and utter incompetent, I still got other good workers to cover what. At most I throw his work to them lah. Of course, this 'wage savings' will result in fatter pockets for the high level management, so the upper management is going to order the chop. Then you see the different levels of management taichi the chop all the way down to the rank and file.

 

All this has nothing to do with inadequacy or whether or not your good at your job, it's simple profit margin.

You said the 1.9% unemployment rate is actually much higher for singaporeans, do you have any facts to back it up ? FWs and FTs are here only if they re employed, so how can they be part of the unemployment rate ?

 

I know of many singaporeans who are holding high paying jobs from a few million a year to fresh graudates from local Universities earning almost 10k a month after working a few years (my sil and bil as a matter of fact). my nephews and nieces worked a few years after they graduate, already drive sport car and bought a condo (no joke). a friend of mine working in IT line in citibank here, earning almost 20k a month years ago, god knows how much he is earning now. and these are singaporeans mind you. if that is not enough, let me just tell you i am in the education industry, and i know of quite a number of my former students who graduated , are holding high positions now and dong very well in their career with good compensation (i know, because we remain as friend). And these, are all singaporeans. Cars and houses are in high demand and prices has risen considerably, is only because people can afford it, thats the testimony of the higher earning capability. You probably are not one of them and so you think every other singaporeans is suffering like you, no thanks to the FTs.

 

some f you who surfs the net regularly and participate in car forums might know bruce. those who knows him knows that he is a singaprean, and when young , was alredy a high flying vp in starhub, today, he has his own realty company already.

 

I give one more exmaple, and this is the epitome i know of. my nephew, graduated from nus as the top number one student in his course, he joined a foreign bank here in sgp, his starting salary (his first job) is a whopping $9k per month , plus $30 daily meal allownce. this young man is the brightest i have ever come across and he has started a charity foundation already. believe it or not is up to you.

 

No doubt there are FTs, some are like nurses, which needs to fill the shortfall of medical workers here, which locals shun. your theory is base purely on the logic that businesses will always get the cheapest FT worker to do the same job. however, do you understand that to earn a high salary, you have to be exceptional and not just mediocre or because you are a singaporean ? My good friend, he is a power station engineer worrkking woth projects in middle east here in sgp, a sgprean, earns as good as a lawyer, because few people can do what he does, btw, we ply mahjong together. bottom line, meritocracy, while it has its ill effects, is the cornerstone of the success factor of singapore, which has no resources exccept the people.

 

the moment you started your reply with 'the pap internet brigade ...", i already think your emotions are clouding your rationale.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Ingenius

[Somewhat1975]

Highly trained? Vocational Institute? Operate complex machinery? Highly efficient?

 

WASTE MY FARKING TIME

 

Just hire a few hundred Banglas at $400/month each and solve the farking problem!

 

There will always be near-slave labour in Asia for us to hire in large numbers.

 

Human resource Salve is our most important resource. And thank god we live in a neighburhood where dirt cheap labour slave is available and plentiful and it looks like that way for the next few hundred years at leastforever (if you have ever visited the poorer countries in our region).

 

correct for you to express your higher mortal kind of thinking in a more articulate way.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Somewhat1975

[Solar]

Tonyhawk for president

 

 

someone said president boh power one... PM better

[Bobby_tan]

someone said president boh power one... PM better

 

Cannot lah, PM is reserved for famiLEE only.

[Bobby_tan]

You said the 1.9% unemployment rate is actually much hhiger for singaporeans, do you have any facts to back it up ? FWs and FTs are here only if they re employed, so how can they be part of the unemployment rate ?

 

I know of many singaporeans who are holding high paying jobs from a few million a year to fresh graudates from local Universities earning almost 10k a month after working a few years (my sil and bil as a matter of fact). my nephews and neices worked a few years faer graduate, already drive sport car and bought a condo (no joke). a friend of mine working in IT line in citibank here, earning almost 20k a month years ago, god knows how much he is earning now. and these are singaporeans mind you. if that is not enough, let me just tell you i am in the education industry, and i know of quite a number of my former students who graduated , are holding high positions now and dong very well in their career with good compensation (i know, because we remain as friend). Cars and houses are in high demand and prices has risen considerably, is only because people can afford it, thats the testimony of the higher arning capability. You probably are not one of them and so you think every other singaporeans is suffering like you, no thanks to the FTs.

 

No doubt there are FTs, some are like nurses, which needs to fill the shortfall of medical workers here, which locals shun. your theory is base purely on the logic that businesses will always get the cheapest FT worker to do the same job. however, do you understand that to earn a high salary, you have to be exceptional and not just mediocre or because you are a singaporean ? meritocracy, while it has its ill effects, is the cornerstone of the success factor of singapore, which has no resources exccept the people.

 

the moment you started your reply with 'the pap internet brigade ...", i already think you are not worth replying to. and i will not anymore.

 

Okay 1st point. Yes, you are correct, my fault for saying wrongly at 1st. FTs will charbok the minute they don't have a job for greener pastures. So really, who is the one making up the majority (if not all) of the unemployment rate? And do you have any statistics to back up that the unemployment rate for locals is not higher than the FTs?

 

Second, I'm doing quite ok thank you. Others are suffering. And the people you know all have it easier than alot of people I know. I work in the architectural industry, which is a lot less lucrative than the banking industry, and I can tell you right now that property prices are so artificially inflated that it's becoming a bubble right now, and my colleagues (especially those who are fresh grads) are struggling to pay HDB loans right now, nevermind buying a condo and a car.

 

3rd point. Correct, you have to be damn good at your job. Singaporean or not, you work hard and do your job to the best of your ability. I will be fair and I will say that I'd rather hire a competent foreigner rather than an incompetent local. But that's not the problem right now, is it? Right now, competent locals are being retrenched in favour of cheaper, unproven foreign talent in the name of 'cutting costs'. Let's face it, the bigger the business, the more focus there is on the profit margin. SMEs have to take care of their workers no matter what as they know their biggest resource is their staff. As for MNCs and large companies, they can easily recruit from anywhere. As for the success of Singapore, we never had this foreigner problem until about more than a decade ago. So no, using meritocracy in this context to justify large scale hiring of foreigners doesn't work here.

 

I've made my points. Since you think I'm not worth listening to since I have somehow offended you, I will not bother to counter anymore arguments you make.

[Oblong]

"Singapore's unemployment rate is a low 1.9% , this shows that whether FT or not, locals still have jobs what."

I thought this thread started with the video "Middle Class Blues" by CNA.

 

At around 18:34, it shows the unemployment rate of PMET through the years.

 

Personally, i find the video quite informative. It looks like an attempt by msm to be more upfront, honest and make some sense of the numbers, provide some reasons, expose some sensitive issues, and allow netizens to bombard.

Then IB will try to defuse and even if unsuccessful, they have gathered enough points to prepare for the next 2 years.

 

[Ingenius]

While there are young graduates who just started working are are struggling to buy their first house, the fact is that they have just started and have a long way to go. look at the new coe scheme whereby people have to place 60% downpayment, and coe prices remains high and in demand. what does this show ? there are a sizeable rich people around. the latest condo in jurong east, was all taken up on launch. surely the fresh graduates cannot expect the same afffordability right ?

 

the crux is, citing young graduates who cannot afford such goodies, is missing the point that they are fresh graduates, and shouldn not expect to be entitled thee same afffordability as those who has worked their years already. this shows the mentality of young people who blame the gahmeent for their plight, without realising that they have enjoyed their education, and has a long way to go to earn their own car and house.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Ingenius

[Oblong]

"Correct, you have to be damn good at your job. Singaporean or not"

Totally agree on this point if we put on the hat of a pragmatic, highly efficient, show me the facts, and numbers only, colonial master.

 

Ok, not really colonial , but u get the drift...

Maybe hedge fund manager for a more contemporary take.

 

That was early 2011, not sure now, or the future though.

 

Mmmm, come to think about it, do you really think ah saw was so damn good in her job during those 10 years?

If you use share price and p&l, maybe u can push for one or some,... but let's be realistic and see from big picture and helicopter view, short term, mid term, long term.

[Mustank]

"Singapore's unemployment rate is a low 1.9% , this shows that whether FT or not, locals still have jobs what."

I thought this thread started with the video "Middle Class Blues" by CNA.

 

At around 18:34, it shows the unemployment rate of PMET through the years.

 

Personally, i find the video quite informative. It looks like an attempt by msm to be more upfront, honest and make some sense of the numbers, provide some reasons, expose some sensitive issues, and allow netizens to bombard.

Then IB will try to defuse and even if unsuccessful, they have gathered enough points to prepare for the next 2 years.

 

agreed

i also notice the "disconnect" between offcial media comms and IB comms

[Roh96]

You said the 1.9% unemployment rate is actually much higher for singaporeans, do you have any facts to back it up ? FWs and FTs are here only if they re employed, so how can they be part of the unemployment rate ?

 

I know of many singaporeans who are holding high paying jobs from a few million a year to fresh graudates from local Universities earning almost 10k a month after working a few years (my sil and bil as a matter of fact). my nephews and nieces worked a few years after they graduate, already drive sport car and bought a condo (no joke). a friend of mine working in IT line in citibank here, earning almost 20k a month years ago, god knows how much he is earning now. and these are singaporeans mind you. if that is not enough, let me just tell you i am in the education industry, and i know of quite a number of my former students who graduated , are holding high positions now and dong very well in their career with good compensation (i know, because we remain as friend). And these, are all singaporeans. Cars and houses are in high demand and prices has risen considerably, is only because people can afford it, thats the testimony of the higher earning capability. You probably are not one of them and so you think every other singaporeans is suffering like you, no thanks to the FTs.

 

some f you who surfs the net regularly and participate in car forums might know bruce. those who knows him knows that he is a singaprean, and when young , was alredy a high flying vp in starhub, today, he has his own realty company already.

 

I give one more exmaple, and this is the epitome i know of. my nephew, graduated from nus as the top number one student in his course, he joined a foreign bank here in sgp, his starting salary (his first job) is a whopping $9k per month , plus $30 daily meal allownce. this young man is the brightest i have ever come across and he has started a charity foundation already. believe it or not is up to you.

 

No doubt there are FTs, some are like nurses, which needs to fill the shortfall of medical workers here, which locals shun. your theory is base purely on the logic that businesses will always get the cheapest FT worker to do the same job. however, do you understand that to earn a high salary, you have to be exceptional and not just mediocre or because you are a singaporean ? My good friend, he is a power station engineer worrkking woth projects in middle east here in sgp, a sgprean, earns as good as a lawyer, because few people can do what he does, btw, we ply mahjong together. bottom line, meritocracy, while it has its ill effects, is the cornerstone of the success factor of singapore, which has no resources exccept the people.

 

the moment you started your reply with 'the pap internet brigade ...", i already think your emotions are clouding your rationale.

 

From your message, it seems to me you have been surrounded by successfully ones. However, for every successful example you quote, i can also give you 10 examples of the less successful or less well to do. But that is not the point here. The fact remains that FT policy has certainly impacted many fellow Sporeans life. I work in an R&D environment, and many times we have hard time finding suitable applicants with right skills and qualifications. For that situation, i welcome FT to fill in those positions and contribute to the success of Spore. However, priorities should be given to local first. I'm glad my organization is taking this approach now. Local first, if can't find a match one, go for FT. That should be the way.

 

 

[Nullifi3d]

You said the 1.9% unemployment rate is actually much higher for singaporeans, do you have any facts to back it up ? FWs and FTs are here only if they re employed, so how can they be part of the unemployment rate ?

 

I know of many singaporeans who are holding high paying jobs from a few million a year to fresh graudates from local Universities earning almost 10k a month after working a few years (my sil and bil as a matter of fact). my nephews and nieces worked a few years after they graduate, already drive sport car and bought a condo (no joke). a friend of mine working in IT line in citibank here, earning almost 20k a month years ago, god knows how much he is earning now. and these are singaporeans mind you. if that is not enough, let me just tell you i am in the education industry, and i know of quite a number of my former students who graduated , are holding high positions now and dong very well in their career with good compensation (i know, because we remain as friend). And these, are all singaporeans. Cars and houses are in high demand and prices has risen considerably, is only because people can afford it, thats the testimony of the higher earning capability. You probably are not one of them and so you think every other singaporeans is suffering like you, no thanks to the FTs.

 

some f you who surfs the net regularly and participate in car forums might know bruce. those who knows him knows that he is a singaprean, and when young , was alredy a high flying vp in starhub, today, he has his own realty company already.

 

I give one more exmaple, and this is the epitome i know of. my nephew, graduated from nus as the top number one student in his course, he joined a foreign bank here in sgp, his starting salary (his first job) is a whopping $9k per month , plus $30 daily meal allownce. this young man is the brightest i have ever come across and he has started a charity foundation already. believe it or not is up to you.

 

No doubt there are FTs, some are like nurses, which needs to fill the shortfall of medical workers here, which locals shun. your theory is base purely on the logic that businesses will always get the cheapest FT worker to do the same job. however, do you understand that to earn a high salary, you have to be exceptional and not just mediocre or because you are a singaporean ? My good friend, he is a power station engineer worrkking woth projects in middle east here in sgp, a sgprean, earns as good as a lawyer, because few people can do what he does, btw, we ply mahjong together. bottom line, meritocracy, while it has its ill effects, is the cornerstone of the success factor of singapore, which has no resources exccept the people.

 

the moment you started your reply with 'the pap internet brigade ...", i already think your emotions are clouding your rationale.

 

So it seems like sharing of salary earnings is like asking for sugar from your relatives.

 

I just told my mom i earned $20K monthly salary and you know what her words to me were - 'Its none of my business".

 

But do you really think she actually believed that her 27 year old son earns that much with only 3 years experience in the financial industry?

 

 

[Hydrocarbon]

I cant stand those marketing calls from these people, many times even i told them i am not interested, they will call again and again and again! Seems like they are not updating their contact list. :angry:

 

Just take your annoyance out on them lor. I got the same from a fitness centre too. Maybe coz I'm too chubby liao.. haha.

 

agree. i do know of two very low income family, they rent their house frmo gahment at a token fee (redhil), and the children didnt need to pay school fees. however, this two families dont have a father, and the mothers (whom i kow) every day play mahjong and go genting once a while, and totally heck care their children. their children all run amok until cid go arrest at the house, and another one chalked up few k of phone bills to malaysia (donno for what), and dropped out of school. my pointis, they need to be resposible for their lives instead of just rely on the gahment to provide foc since they are poor.

 

They have to take responsibility for their own lives. Sounds like they don't, and just expect handouts from the government. There's actually poor people who, without working, expect handouts for not working, just to be able to kick back and relax. These type of people are leeches. Not referring to those who are poor but still work hard.