Middle class blues

[Little_prince]

they are suppressing salary indirectly, but in certain industries also supress the cost too. if not outside workshop wont be charging only sub 100 for car servicing liao. it work both ways.

having said that, like many of us mention. its more of the lousy FT that cannot do work that we have to work with that make us feel angry and wonder why. imagine if all the FT that can do work and better than us are in PMT. how many of us will dare to voice out loudly that FW are snatching our rice bowl??

 

i think not all FT are bad.

 

more objective observers will agree that singapore needs the foreigners.

 

what creates resentment is the fact that the way floodgate is open to subpar "talents" that either directly or indirectly take away quality jobs from locals.

[Jman888]

Just over today lunch, my friend share with me his story. His FT boss 'run road' during the haze crisis (the week where psi hit 400). Applied 2 weeks leave and book an air ticket to Australia. When crisis occur, FT will 'run road' first.

 

 

dun like that say, you never read about many local also runaway meh?

[Roh96]

dun like that say, you never read about many local also runaway meh?

 

Run to Malaysia?

[Lancedrift688]

i think not all FT are bad.

 

more objective observers will agree that singapore needs the foreigners.

 

what creates resentment is the fact that the way floodgate is open to subpar "talents" that either directly or indirectly take away quality jobs from locals.

 

The problem is 'too many too soon'. We've only had this problem in the last 10 years towards the end of GCT's rule and throughout pinky loong's rule.

[Jman888]

Run to Malaysia?

 

 

closer ones are Bali and Thailand, further will be HK or australia.

[Lancedrift688]

Run to Malaysia?

 

Somemore run to m'sia tio 700+ API.

[Joseph22]

I'm not surprised he said that given viceroy's statements earlier.

yeah and no surprise that you all newbie give me the feeling that the account are created just to spread pap bashing nia too.

[Joseph22]

i think not all FT are bad.

 

more objective observers will agree that singapore needs the foreigners.

 

what creates resentment is the fact that the way floodgate is open to subpar "talents" that either directly or indirectly take away quality jobs from locals.

thanks for helping me to summarise.

[Hydrocarbon]

see my posting after that. we sometimes forget that management are also human not prophet or fortune teller that can see the future. so they can only assess what they see now. so we all better learn to sell ourself

 

Yup, I did, but our postings we similar timing, so didn't get to see that before I posted.

 

to be fair on the bold portion. On employment font, how will the management or hiring manager be able to tell that the person B can do 3 unit? and the person A can do only 1 unit?? its from the word of mouth. but if person A is better at presentation (sometimes its called lying without guilt ) then there is nothing we can do. its not possible to fault him.

 

The point I wanted to make is that a lot (not all) companies are hiring based on cost, not on productivity. Agreed, there's no way of knowing who can do a better job without actually seeing them work, but isn't the point of an interview and probation period to learn more about the employee? If the person can communicate, that's already a very important asset to his team, so the interview will weed out people who cannot communicate. Then the probation period will allow the company to see whether the candidate is as capable as claimed.

 

Maybe it's the criteria in which candidates are chosen and selected that is the problem?

[Lancedrift688]

yeah and no surprise that you all newbie give me the feeling that the account are created just to spread pap bashing nia too.

 

Yah lah you old man lah hor. Just because I newb don't mean I come here for pap bashing. If i really wan pap bashing I go hwz lagi best.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Lancedrift688

[Yattokame]

Just over today lunch, my friend share with me his story. His FT boss 'run road' during the haze crisis (the week where psi hit 400). Applied 2 weeks leave and book an air ticket to Australia. When crisis occur, FT will 'run road' first.

 

tonnes of locals also run road leh..... so much updates on my facebook during that period.

 

run or not, it's just survival instincts lah.... I feel there's no correlation whether it's FT or not.

[Wyfitms]

Just over today lunch, my friend share with me his story. His FT boss 'run road' during the haze crisis (the week where psi hit 400). Applied 2 weeks leave and book an air ticket to Australia. When crisis occur, FT will 'run road' first.

 

nothing wrong what.. this is not called running road lar.. not as if it is a war or invasion where SG needs its ppl to be around

 

i also asked my wife to bring the kids to australia

[Joseph22]

Yup, I did, but our postings we similar timing, so didn't get to see that before I posted.

 

 

 

The point I wanted to make is that a lot (not all) companies are hiring based on cost, not on productivity. Agreed, there's no way of knowing who can do a better job without actually seeing them work, but isn't the point of an interview and probation period to learn more about the employee? If the person can communicate, that's already a very important asset to his team, so the interview will weed out people who cannot communicate. Then the probation period will allow the company to see whether the candidate is as capable as claimed.

 

Maybe it's the criteria in which candidates are chosen and selected that is the problem?

 

Yeah. i am just looking from the other side of the coin. althought i will complain on your side at times too.

 

however, i do been to company that employ ppl base on work ability. but those are large corporate that can afford to pay for higher pay.

[Coolad]

For me the line is crossed if it happens to pple around me

 

1)My wife sg boss restrenched and replaced by 2 not 1 totally incompetent FTs (families also moved to Sg)

2)My fren's husband told to train FT and got retrenched after FT is competent enuff

3)My ex-colleague Europe working visa rejected becoz that country's immigration states tat operation is already >5years, no way their own pple cannot do it.

 

Last point is a wake up call for me that our gahment is not working and taking the easy way out despite being paid obscene salaries.

 

Trivial; 1st time I encountered foreigner picked up call when I mistaken key-in 1 wrong digit when calling my mum

 

Put in simply: Not against FT, but too many too soon.. and too many trash mingled inside, not the good ones that we want. we are helping other countries taking care of their trash....

[Ingenius]

I'm one of the 'spoilt youth' you're referring to and I take offence to that. Yes, we do have a few super vocal ones who complain about everything. Does that make all the youth spoilt?

 

no, not everyone are spoilt as you self-confessed to be.

We don't have an entitlement mentality, all we're asking for is for the govt to tighten restrictions on the number of PMETs allowed into Singapore so that competition isn't as crazy as now. Do we want competition? Yes. Do we want too much competition as is the case now? No.

 

Ok, listen to yourself, you said you want competition but not too much competition. so how well you want it to be balanced ? can you suggest a figure ? basically, you want it pathed nicely for you by the gahment to have a good job with high salary right ? how do you expect the gahment to screen every FT and decide whether which is competent and which is not, besides their credential ? it is the gahment's responsiblilty to tweak manpower and FT quotas, but another for private companies to choose the best man for the best job. even if the gahment is to limit and tighten the quota, there will always be good and bad FT workers, so how is the gahment going to ensure that only the best FT works here and not the lousy ones?

 

Also hor, we're not asking the govt to reserve all the top jobs for us. If a FT is more competent than a local, he should get it without a doubt. But you see, now the problem is, locals are steadily getting shoved out of mid and higher management positions by FTs in every sector, but especially in the IT and banking sectors. So are you trying to say that Singaporeans are completely inferior to foreigners when it comes to these jobs?

 

I already cited many cases of local singaporeans holding top jobs in banking and is evident if you look around us, so this shows that the ground is fair and opportunity is there for singaporeans to succeed. whoever achieves success is not base on the nationality but merit. this is how organisation should be. like i said, even my boss is a foreigner, but i understand and never blame the gahment. i dont want to repeat the logic. you are the one who says FTs are shoving out singaporeans for top jobs and i didnt say that, so how can i be implying that singaporeans are inferior to foreigners ? in fact, you are the one who is inferring that. to add, i susect you are working in the IT dept, and yes, IT industry needs foreign talents, simply because there is a acute shortage. i have been working in IT for a decade or two and i can atest to that. however, my friend who is working in other dept in bank tells me most other workers are singaporeans.

 

And another question is, do we have enough jobs to cater to BOTH locals and FTs?

 

Unemployment rate of 1.9%, are we facing a job shortage crisis ?

 

I'm working in a big engineering company and I have quite a few FT colleagues. Some are damn good, some are alright and some are completely CMI. In short, they are a lot like us. Got some good ones, got some bad eggs. But the problem now is that locals, whether excellent or lousy at their job, are getting phased out in favour of a cheaper foreigner.

 

So are you phased out by your colleagues already ? or which of us here in mcf is, for the matter ? or you are just whining about your low pay ?

Edited July 4, 2013 by Ingenius

[Sabian]

i think not all FT are bad.

 

more objective observers will agree that singapore needs the foreigners.

 

what creates resentment is the fact that the way floodgate is open to subpar "talents" that either directly or indirectly take away quality jobs from locals.

Agree with you on that.

 

Esp some type will bring in their own village and the entire dept all same passport...but how do you guard against this?

[Hydrocarbon]

Yeah. i am just looking from the other side of the coin. althought i will complain on your side at times too.

 

however, i do been to company that employ ppl base on work ability. but those are large corporate that can afford to pay for higher pay.

 

Great discussion!

 

MNC while being able to pay more, corporate culture different. Though the ladder to climb is higher and longer, so probably more advancement opportunities.

[VolksBarSG]

I'm working with a local agency now and they take good care of all the staff. Most of us are locals, but we have a few FTs who truly are talents. Integrate well with us and work well with us. That's the kind of FTs we like and need. Problem is, now we got all these mudder fudder jokers coming in here with sloppy work performance and see us no up. Like that tiong family who actually wanted their Indian neighbour to stop cooking curry. Shocking part is that the gahmen actually agreed with the tiongs.

 

Anyways, came here to say that most local SMEs are very good when it comes to giving priority to locals in terms of hiring and keeping employees happy. MNCs, not so much.