[Happily1986]

It all boils down to poor education (by education I refer to the capacity for critical thought as well as the ability to find and navigate one's own moral compass in life), pure selfishness (as long as my interests are met I do not care how many suffer or live in pain) as well as an intellectual dumbing down of the population through careful manipulation of the media as well as the creation of social structures designed to keep people meek and compliant.

 

Starting to sound a little too much like Animal Farm eh?

 

Unfortunately, that's the manifest function which many people are so aware of. Education as a social construct also serves a latent function; allowing for a systematic and pervasive indoctrination of certain ideals, values and viewpoint which were prior, cherry-picked and deemed desirable.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Happily1986

[CKP]

I am not a fan of the PAP, some of their policies are disagreeable

 

but however much I don't like them, in this turn of events, I strongly support a firm hand to clamp down on the trouble makers

 

Some of you don't realize the deep repercussions of what has happened

 

It affects foreign investments, property prices, your jobs and our social harmony

 

The number 1 rule that must be enforced in Singapore is, NO public unrest.

 

Now is some PRC bus drivers strike over pay, if we leave them be, next the construction workers strike, then we tolerate that, and Amy Cheong makes a racist remark, and the Malays protest in shenton way, then Chee soon Juan starts a protest down orchard road and we say that's ok

 

This is not the path Singapore should go down, look at Greece, the middle east Arab uprising, Spain, UK and more.

 

Some of you guys write flowery essays and talk about fighting for workers rights. Talk is cheap, when Singapore is in trouble , all your beautiful theories won't buy you food.

 

The foreign drivers acted in the wrong way and threatened our stability, there is no question they are wrong and should be sent off. Anyone siding the foreign trouble makers are traitors to me.

 

You want to fight for workers rights, go start a protest down orchard for better pay for our local toilet cleaners and old ah mahs clearing the dishes at the food courts - I will be there to stand shoulder to shoulder with you .

 

Writing beautiful prose to support the illegal actions of PRC workers that have no vested interest in Singapore - you can kiss my ass.

 

 

Your post is but one of the example of how people like to make arguments based solely from their values.

 

 

It has to do with the value system of the majority:

 

The vast majority here prefer and accept a little exploitation on individual and labor rights

over any real or imagined "loss of order, harmony and co-operation",

which is seen as dangerous to their own survival, interests and legitimacy.

 

The above quote fits you to a "T".

 

Almost everyone, on a frequent basis, make arguments based on their VALUES.

Sometimes they are aware they are doing so; sometimes they are not aware.

 

Did you read the very recent article on "PM Lee: We must not abandon values".

 

It's fine to make arguments based on "values".

HOWEVER, if reality, real life examples and precedents

do not support and do not confirm the the validity and merit of your arguments,

or worse, totally contradicts what you claim "will happen" based on your values,

then, for anyone to rest their arguments entirely on their "values" or "value judgments"

would make their arguments very weak and superficial.

 

You need to read up on labor and industrial action before rushing to conclude that "strikes equal to end of the world"

or "strikes equal to end of progress and quality of life".

 

Edited December 3, 2012 by CKP

[Happily1986]

There is little constructive value that can be garnered by exchanging replies with someone who is fixated with a certain ideal. It is no different with dealing with a closed mind.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Happily1986

[CKP]

I am not a fan of the PAP, some of their policies are disagreeable

 

Now is some PRC bus drivers strike over pay, if we leave them be, next the construction workers strike, then we tolerate that, and Amy Cheong makes a racist remark, and the Malays protest in shenton way, then Chee soon Juan starts a protest down orchard road and we say that's ok

 

This is not the path Singapore should go down, look at Greece, the middle east Arab uprising, Spain, UK and more.

 

 

This thread is about industrial relationship (unions, employers, government), strikes and also individual labor rights.

All the above examples you cited are obviously irrelevant to the above topics.

 

 

I have also no idea why you would link those examples of "greece" and "arab spring"

to the topics of "strike", "racist remarks" and "political protest by Chee".

 

 

There is no link. Nada and Zilch,

but you put them there for the purpose of sounding you are in touch with global current affairs, I suppose.

 

.

Edited December 3, 2012 by CKP

[Tonyng]

There are good strikes and there are bad strikes.

 

The problem is no one know which until a good strike become a bad one.

 

Demonstration may be better, permit permitting.

[Kopites]

Is really an eye openess with so many highly educate forumers with great vision/insight postings. Indeed I did Learnt quite a fair bit from most of the posts here. On the whole it took me at least 45min to finish the whole TS article. Bo pian..pardon mine inadquate academic background to fully comprehend the article.

 

Just one question that is lingering on my mind. Do china transport industry indeed pay much better than singapore counterpart?

[Ngck]

This thread is about industrial relationship (unions, employers, government), strikes and also individual labor rights.

All the above examples you cited are obviously irrelevant to the above topics.

 

 

I have also no idea why you would link those examples of "greece" and "arab spring"

to the topics of "strike", "racist remarks" and "political protest by Chee".

 

 

There is no link. Nada and Zilch,

but you put them there for the purpose of sounding you are in touch with global current affairs, I suppose.

 

.

 

 

not fan of PAP... but he use PAP tactics... cannot convince? spread fear... you want your wife to work as maids???

[Renegade777]

But the article fail as most people on internet forum have only the patient to read about maybe 5 paragraph max. I stop reading after all the xenophobic first part, so the fancy stuff never get screen time.

 

When I write something online, I like to keep it as compact as possible. People do not normally want to read an essay online. Just saying.

 

Aiyo ! This is internet lah. Nobody will summarise such lengthy passage for the general public. If you do it, it is a good habit and especially in the working environment, submission of reports should be short, concise and sweet as possible. Give lock, stock, and barrel kind of reports sure fail and kana big time.

 

 

[Kiario]

actually many are saying if not happy, then quit.

 

no problem if we are young, but imagine if we are in our fifties, i doubt we can still say such thing so easily.

 

yesterday ST commentary did mention about Singapore tripartite relationship and how it cannot always be about the workers giving in.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Kiario

[Rncw]

actually many are saying if not happy, then quit.

 

no problem if we are young, but imagine if we are in our fifties, i doubt we can still say such thing so easily.

 

yesterday ST commentary did mention about Singapore tripartite relationship and how it cannot always be about the workers giving in.

 

 

yah man...i not happy at work also must lan lan drag myself to work every morning....if i young i anytime throw letter, but now cannot.....everyday must learn the por-lum-par kungfu....the rich and powerful and gahmen do the talk, i poor and weak do the walk....in fact the entire world is like that

[Hondacub777]

Wow this thread turn into supporting a political party and personal attack liao

[Sosaria]

Wow! Don't you guys need to sleep to get enough rest for today's working day??

 

Then again, somebody advised us to stop thinking like worker bees!

 

I think, bottomline is that no one view or way of thinking is 100% valid and correct. This is not maths or physics governed by unbreakable natural laws.

 

You give your views, on whichever side or aspect, somebody can always pull out one or two examples to counter it. So it's an unending argument.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Sosaria

[Darryn]

Whatever the facts are, fundamentally at the end of the day, it MUST be a LOSE scenario for those who went on strike. Even if SMRT management get punished, the people who started the strike must not get any significant benefit.

 

At the end of the day, people are watching the outcome of this episode. You think SMRT bus drivers are the ONLY group with real grievances? Whatever your issues is, going of strike is not an option. This message must be made clear.

 

There's real problems with these parts of your statement.

 

If there's real and valid grievances, and they are not being listened to or acted upon, then what else should be done?

 

If there are real grievances and we don't support people in speaking out, then it is our failure as human beings. You would really support an ongoing injustice for the sake of a law? Laws are supposed to reflect morality, not govern morality. An unjust law is as good as no law at all.

 

[Toapayohkid]

This thread is about industrial relationship (unions, employers, government), strikes and also individual labor rights.

All the above examples you cited are obviously irrelevant to the above topics.

 

 

I have also no idea why you would link those examples of "greece" and "arab spring"

to the topics of "strike", "racist remarks" and "political protest by Chee".

 

 

There is no link. Nada and Zilch,

but you put them there for the purpose of sounding you are in touch with global current affairs, I suppose.

 

.

 

gd pts. coz some ppl don't want to distinguish between industrial relations and politics, conveniently and shallowing linking the two as simpler. lol

[Myxilplix]

What price our humanity, eh?

[Toapayohkid]

Wow this thread turn into supporting a political party and personal attack liao

 

when in doubt and nothing new to add, turn it into support/attack of a political party lor! :)

[Damienic]

'Lightbringer' date='Dec 3 2012, 11:19 PM'

 

It is indeed refreshing to see esteemed minds and luminaries such as CSJ and Tan Jee Say touch common ground with the less-fortunate and common folks - I'm sure they are of the same mind and heart as me.

 

Hahahaha, Chee soon Juan is a moron who could not even go on a proper hunger strike! Esteemed indeed.

(A Glucose drip is cheating)

 

The Workers Party did things the correct way and won 6 seats in parliament including a GRC, kicking out a minister in the process. Hats off to them.

 

CSJ did nothing besides embarrass himself and the votes reflect what Singaporeans think of him.

 

Stop politicizing the issue by claiming its is about workers rights

 

It is about the stability and harmony of Singapore, and no one should be allowed to mess with that.

 

CSJ a moron? You dunno what you are talking about or should I say rather that you have been brainwashed to think that he is a moron.

 

CSJ if he wasn't an opp politician but a PAP aligned politician, marked my words that he would have rose to become one of the most prominent members in the party. Even many members of the current PAP leadership can't match up to him save for a few. I suggest you go read his book and listen to his speeches in person before you draw such conclusions.

 

LKY saw enough of his calibre to realise he could threaten pap's dominance that he saw it necessary to go all out to destroy him himself.

 

I still dun understand how you could associate strikes with stability and harmony of the nation. Please cite with good examples to show your reasoning.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Damienic

[Joseph22]

'Lightbringer' date='Dec 3 2012, 11:19 PM'

 

It is indeed refreshing to see esteemed minds and luminaries such as CSJ and Tan Jee Say touch common ground with the less-fortunate and common folks - I'm sure they are of the same mind and heart as me.

 

Hahahaha, Chee soon Juan is a moron who could not even go on a proper hunger strike! Esteemed indeed.

(A Glucose drip is cheating)

 

The Workers Party did things the correct way and won 6 seats in parliament including a GRC, kicking out a minister in the process. Hats off to them.

 

CSJ did nothing besides embarrass himself and the votes reflect what Singaporeans think of him.

 

Stop politicizing the issue by claiming its is about workers rights

 

It is about the stability and harmony of Singapore, and no one should be allowed to mess with that.

 

i suggest you read about Singapore history especially how LKY raised to power. see what LKY did and see if you can draw a comparision with CSJ?

 

BTW, you are the one politicizing the issue by bringing other nations in seemly to want to say their government is incompetent.