VES 2018

[Jwee85]

My JC standard chemistry knowledge.

 

When you burn a petrol, it will react with oxygen to burn and produce CO CO2 and NOx, SOx.

 

The C, N, S all exist in the raw fuel.

The O2 is from atmosphere during combustion.

 

So I don't understand how any engine is able to reduce the emission gases NOx, SOx and CO2. Using the molecular reaction formular.....the total molecules in the fuel will always be exhausted thru the pipe after combustion!!!!

 

The only way to cheat is to install a super big catalytic cum particulate filter cum gas/resin adsorption columns in the exhaust pipeline. But that will adds to the cost of maintenance/mid-life replacement, etc.

 

I think LTA has set the rule simply to increase taxes income.

 

There is very little improvement in engine combustions over the years, as the chemical reactions are FIXED by nature!

[Spidey10]

My JC standard chemistry knowledge.

 

When you burn a petrol, it will react with oxygen to burn and produce CO CO2 and NOx, SOx.

 

The C, N, S all exist in the raw fuel.

The O2 is from atmosphere during combustion.

 

So I don't understand how any engine is able to reduce the emission gases NOx, SOx and CO2. Using the molecular reaction formular.....the total molecules in the fuel will always be exhausted thru the pipe after combustion!!!!

 

The only way to cheat is to install a super big catalytic cum particulate filter cum gas/resin adsorption columns in the exhaust pipeline. But that will adds to the cost of maintenance/mid-life replacement, etc.

 

I think LTA has set the rule simply to increase taxes income.

 

There is very little improvement in engine combustions over the years, as the chemical reactions are FIXED by nature!

Can share with us the outcome of building producing car batteries? So that we have a reference point of comparison between using cars that run on petrol, diesel and battery?

I am sure there are enviournment unfriendly impact of producing Batt....but I guess it must be safer than petrol and diesel as everyone is into EV nowadays. or the truth is still not out there....soon all will be know...

Sorry hor, I no science geek.....this is rocket science to me.

[Ysc3]

ok, this thread is 47 pages long and I don't think I can scroll through it to find what I want ...

 

so i'll just put it here :

 

I ordered a shuttle for 94k last month. (COE at 42900)

paperwork all done, deposit paid. loan approved also.

 

yesterday VITAs just approved and I am shown that it qualifies for 10k CEVS rebate.

 

so where will this rebate come into the picture in financial terms ?

Edited October 4, 2017 by Ysc3

[Carbon82]

My JC standard chemistry knowledge.

 

When you burn a petrol, it will react with oxygen to burn and produce CO CO2 and NOx, SOx.

 

The C, N, S all exist in the raw fuel.

The O2 is from atmosphere during combustion.

 

So I don't understand how any engine is able to reduce the emission gases NOx, SOx and CO2. Using the molecular reaction formular.....the total molecules in the fuel will always be exhausted thru the pipe after combustion!!!!

 

The only way to cheat is to install a super big catalytic cum particulate filter cum gas/resin adsorption columns in the exhaust pipeline. But that will adds to the cost of maintenance/mid-life replacement, etc.

 

I think LTA has set the rule simply to increase taxes income.

 

There is very little improvement in engine combustions over the years, as the chemical reactions are FIXED by nature!

 

You are not wrong to say that 1 liter of fuel will generate a fixed amount of CO, CO2, NOx, etc. BUT by making the engine more efficient, the same amount of fuel will allow one to cover a longer distance, and thereby lower the pollutants emission per Km covered. Say for example, 1 ltr of petrol generate 1200g of CO2, if the car can do only do 10Km/L, CO2 emission reading will be 120g/Km, whereas a 16Km/L car will have a lower CO2 reading of 75g/Km.

 

As to how to make an engine more efficient, 3 major practice adopted by auto manufacturers are:

1) Engine downsizing

2) Gearbox with more or unlimited gear ratio (e.g. 8 speed, CVT)

3) Fine tuning to engine combustion cycle and start-stop & coasting technology

 

So how does engine downsizing work? Some have said that when smaller cc engine are in turbo charged mode, it burn the same amount of fuel as higher cc engine, if not more and there are practically no saving to fuel used. Well, that is not entirely wrong, but this only happened when the driver floor the gas pedal. In other driving conditions, say when cruising on highway, the engine need not to work so hard, and thus lesser amount of fuel is being pumped into the engine.

 

To give an even more simple illustration, say at a traffic light. A conventional 3.0L N.A. engine may be burning say 0.1L of fuel per minute of idling, and theoretically, a 1.5L Turbocharge engine will be consuming just half the amount of fuel within the same time frame, as it has a smaller engine, pure physic.

 

Next, about gear ratio. Again, simple physic here. Power from the engine are transmitted to the wheel through the gearbox (and driveshaft of course). A higher gear ratio (>1:3) will allow a car to move up a slope or under full load with ease, whereas a lower gear ratio (1:<0.8) will allow the engine to work less harder (lower rpm) at higher speed. So a gear box with more ratio will allow the engine to work within a more constant rpm range, thereby reducing fuel consumption.

 

Last, on fine tuning of engine combustion, have you heard of Miller cycle, Atkinson cycle or Budack cycle combustion process? Don't worry, I am not here to give lecture or confuse you with all these "chim" terminology. In a nut shell, different combustion process will generate different amount of power from the same amount of fuel the engine is fed with. By applying the appropriate combustion cycle, it will allows engine to burn cleaner (i.e. generating more power with lesser amount of fuel used), and along with say start-stop technology, it will reduce the pollutants emission per KM traveled, simple as that.

 

Ok, enough of theory. Hope you are still awake when you are reading this last line...    

 

 

 

ok, this thread is 47 pages long and I don't think I can scroll through it to find what I want ...

 

so i'll just put it here :

 

I ordered a shuttle for 94k last month. (COE at 42900)

paperwork all done, deposit paid. loan approved also.

 

yesterday VITAs just approved and I am shown that it qualifies for 10k CEVS rebate.

 

so where will this rebate come into the picture in financial terms ?

 

I will skip the details here. The dealer you get the car from will have already factor in the CEVS rebate into the selling price of your Shuttle, so you stand to gain (or loose) nothing from the final CEVS rebate detailed by LTA (after being tested by VICOM or other accredited agency).

 

CEVS rebate is not a physical cash rebate given to buyer when they got a more environmental-friendly car. Rather, the rebate will be used to offset the ARF (Additional Registration Fee) you need to pay for your car. And there is one catch here, when you pay lower ARF (after utilizing the CEVS rebate), you will get a lower PARF at end of 10 years, when you scrap your car.

 

Example, using the average OMV of $22K for Shuttle Hybrid.

 

Without CEVS,

ARF = $22,800

PARF (10 yrs) = 50% of ARF = $11,400

 

With $10K CEVS,

AFR = $22,800 - $10K CEVS rebate = $12,800

PARF (10 yrs) = 50% of ARF = $6,400

Edited October 4, 2017 by Carbon82

[L23]

ok, this thread is 47 pages long and I don't think I can scroll through it to find what I want ...

 

so i'll just put it here :

 

I ordered a shuttle for 94k last month. (COE at 42900)

paperwork all done, deposit paid. loan approved also.

 

yesterday VITAs just approved and I am shown that it qualifies for 10k CEVS rebate.

 

so where will this rebate come into the picture in financial terms ?

 

Check the pocket of your seller.

Maybe its already in their pocket

[Ysc3]

Check the pocket of your seller.

Maybe its already in their pocket

so that does not affect me at all lah ...wonder why he still circle it for me to see ... maybe to spite me !!?

[Ahbengdriver]

so that does not affect me at all lah ...wonder why he still circle it for me to see ... maybe to spite me !!?

when u buy the car, CEVS already included. 

[Axmeister]

I do not think any car sold now qualifies for the highest cev tier.  Purely money grab by LTA because petrol duties is now $0.64 or $0.56 per liter compared to $0.10 per litre for diesel.  Generally diesel cars consumed less for every KM, hence logically, the intention is purely upping the LTA coffers or rather balancing the budget.

[Lava]

ok, this thread is 47 pages long and I don't think I can scroll through it to find what I want ...

 

so i'll just put it here :

 

I ordered a shuttle for 94k last month. (COE at 42900)

paperwork all done, deposit paid. loan approved also.

 

yesterday VITAs just approved and I am shown that it qualifies for 10k CEVS rebate.

 

so where will this rebate come into the picture in financial terms ?

cev rebate is just another source of profit into the seller pocket.

 

you will know where the cev rebate goes to by looking at the premium that they had made.

[grandis123]

Check the pocket of your seller.

Maybe its already in their pocket

 

But for 94k, is it consider cheap? I mean without the rebates, would the price be actually higher?

[Eyke]

so that does not affect me at all lah ...wonder why he still circle it for me to see ... maybe to spite me !!?

it does.

 

ur paper value is lower, when scrapped will get back less

[pi3142]

 

maybe we do a MCF compilation of VES cars that AD has confirmed. I will start what I know:

 

 

- Mazda 6, +10K

- Subaru Impreza 1.6, +10K

- Subaru Impreza 2.0, Neutral

- Volvo S60, +10-20K

-

 

From what I have gathered:

- PI Honda Freed Hybrid (GD7),  -10k 

- PI Toyota Sienta Hybrid (NHP170), neutral

 

[Jwee85]

seems like many AD are holding their new VES cards well.

 

Why don't the AD play the BUY NOW game, IF those cars that incur higher VES taxes in 2018 are made know to buyers?

This surely can drive the demand for the existing stocks in 2017.

[Mkl22]

What if the coe drops in accordance to the VEVS taxes ??

 

Means collect say $10k more VEVS, lose $10k revenue from coe??

 

Maybe they have calculated charges VEVS and lose coe ( won't crash by $30k ) but tax some cars $30k...

 

WOWWWWW,..LTA scholars jin satki

There is a slight difference between $$ collected from coe vs VES.

Simple example of omv 20k Car with 10k rebate now and 0 VES next year. Assuming 50k now and 40k next year. Price to customer is assumed the same but to lta if the car is somehow scarpped early at 5th year.

 

With arf 10k and coe 50k. Lta gets 2.5k from arf and 25k from coe

 

With arf 20k and coe 40k. Lta gets 5k arf and 20k from Coe.

 

If 10years then, 5k + 50k and 10k + 40k, respectively.

 

I’m sure there are many more combinations and interactions But food for thought.

[Perspectivism]

What if the coe drops in accordance to the VEVS taxes ??

 

Means collect say $10k more VEVS, lose $10k revenue from coe??

 

Maybe they have calculated charges VEVS and lose coe ( won't crash by $30k ) but tax some cars $30k...

 

WOWWWWW,..LTA scholars jin satki

LTA must have realized that with the sluggish local economy (read: not the inflated foreign money) will lead to depressed coe and could be using cves to offset Lower returns

[Milano88]

Assuming  i enter an agreement to purchase the car from the AD now but could only take delivery of the car after 1st Jan 2018. 

 

As such, would the CEVS affects me as  I consider made the purchased in this year.

[Wt_know]

Assuming i enter an agreement to purchase the car from the AD now but could only take delivery of the car after 1st Jan 2018.

 

As such, would the CEVS affects me as I consider made the purchased in this year.

must register the car by dec 17 la

can deliver or collect after 1st 2018

[Benarsenal]

Sounded very communist style of resource allocation.

 

Very equitable, but also autocratic.

Cannot choose type of car.

 

If have extended family?

Own family say 3 person, extended is 7,

Can be entitled to buy 12 seater van?

 

Can choose. Just pay lor. Others COE is free for all what.

 

Extended family if under one roof, then maybe have a case for 12 seater van. Anyway it's just a thought and the rules can (and should) be flexible one.